Possible File Saving Bug with [/]?

Possible File Saving Bug with [/]?

[Summer Emacs]

Hi!

I’m not sure if this is a bug or not, but after hunting down the problem for an hour (and finding it), I felt that I needed to report this just in case.

I have a .org file which is just a list of Emacs commands I like to keep handy to refer to (navigation, selection, commands in some modes etc…) One of these had help about the [/] command for a header for a list. However, because I had [/] and no numbers in it (it was just an example to show me how to do it if I forgot), it kept saving a backup copy of that file anytime that I saved it, and kept that backup “alive” to track. The name of the regular file is emacshelp.org, and the file it kept creating in my directory was .#emacshelp.org#  -> summer@summer.localhost.randomnumberhere:randomportnumberhere

This was intensely annoying because anytime that I did a Magit stage and commit, it would keep asking me if I wanted to save the file - every time I would input a command in Magit for every stage/commit etc…

Just adding = = around the [/] removed this behaviour.

Again: Since it took me an hour to figure out, as was frustrating as hell, to find the “bug" (I don’t know how you programmers do this for a living…), I figured I’d report it.

I’m running Emacs on a MacBook Pro (M series). I doubt it has something to do with the OS, but please ask if you need more info.

I’m sorry to spam everyone if this is already a known behaviour. 
Emacs Version: d12frosted’s emacs plus, 30.0.50
Org version: 9.6.7

Thanks!

Summer Emacs

Re: Possible File Saving Bug with [/]?

[Ihor Radchenko]

Summer Emacs <summeremacs@summerstar.me> writes:

> I have a .org file which is just a list of Emacs commands I like to keep handy to refer to (navigation, selection, commands in some modes etc…) One of these had help about the [/] command for a header for a list. However, because I had [/] and no numbers in it (it was just an example to show me how to do it if I forgot), it kept saving a backup copy of that file anytime that I saved it, and kept that backup “alive” to track. The name of the regular file is emacshelp.org, and the file it kept creating in my directory was .#emacshelp.org#  -> summer@summer.localhost.randomnumberhere:randomportnumberhere

Thanks for the report!
Unfortunately, it is not clear to me what exactly is going on from your
description.
May you please provide more detailed instructions how to trigger the
observed behavior? See https://orgmode.org/manual/Feedback.html#Feedback

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: Possible File Saving Bug with [/]?

[Samuel Wales]

lock file?  in 27 (info "(emacs) Interlocking") strangely does not
mention .# but it could be the concept in question.


On 9/6/23, Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> wrote:
> Summer Emacs <summeremacs@summerstar.me> writes:
>
>> I have a .org file which is just a list of Emacs commands I like to keep
>> handy to refer to (navigation, selection, commands in some modes etc…) One
>> of these had help about the [/] command for a header for a list. However,
>> because I had [/] and no numbers in it (it was just an example to show me
>> how to do it if I forgot), it kept saving a backup copy of that file
>> anytime that I saved it, and kept that backup “alive” to track. The name
>> of the regular file is emacshelp.org, and the file it kept creating in my
>> directory was .#emacshelp.org#  ->
>> summer@summer.localhost.randomnumberhere:randomportnumberhere
>
> Thanks for the report!
> Unfortunately, it is not clear to me what exactly is going on from your
> description.
> May you please provide more detailed instructions how to trigger the
> observed behavior? See https://orgmode.org/manual/Feedback.html#Feedback
>
> --
> Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
> Org mode contributor,
> Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
> Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
> or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
>
>


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https://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com

Re: Possible File Saving Bug with [/]?

[Ihor Radchenko]

Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:

> lock file?  in 27 (info "(emacs) Interlocking") strangely does not
> mention .# but it could be the concept in question.

#... is a backup file. There is nothing wrong or surprising about it.

However, the bug report is not clear enough for me to try reproducing
things on my side. I am even not sure what exactly is the problem - is
it creating the backup (which is normal) or is it save confirmation
dialogue?

That's why I asked more details.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: Possible File Saving Bug with [/]?

[Summer Emacs]

Hi! Sorry for the delay in replies. I was super busy yesterday, last night, and this morning. Ok! Let’s get to it:

1) I’m not going to reproduce the bug because it’s super annoying for me to try to get rid of because I have to kill extra buffers to do it, restart emacs, fix the git repo etc…and I don’t have time for that right now. I just have a few minutes before lunch so here goes:

2) My help file includes examples of commands, such as:
* C-x C-q - In dired, lets you enter edit mode to rename files
* C-u C-c C-q - Re-aligns tags (this isn’t a direct quote I’m just making this up to show you examples.

3) In one of the headers, it looked something like this:
* C-c C-c on [/] to update done items in todo list.

That [/] just like that was creating a backup file on every save named .#emacshelp.org# —> summer@summer.local.23434:882343 (those are made up numbers but it was always random and looked something like that in the ls -la command in terminal.)

Since I regularly add notes to my file, I also use Magit to save a backup copy (M-x g). But whenever I did that, it would ask if I wanted to save emacshelp.org. Obviously it was being affected by the backup file (which was never open in a buffer, it just was “there” in the directory).

An example of Magit interaction for adding/committing changes to that file would look something like this: (from emacshelp.org file)

1) M-x g
2) Minibuffer: Do you want to save emacshelp.org? Y/n/etc…
3) s
4) Minibuffer: Do you want to save emacshelp.org? Y/n/etc…
5) c c
6) Minibuffer: Do you want to save emacshelp.org? Y/n/etc…
7) Write commit message
8) C-c C-c
9) Minibuffer: Do you want to save emacshelp.org? Y/n/etc…
10) q
11) Minibuffer: Do you want to save emacshelp.org? Y/n/etc…

You get the idea. Every single thing I did in Magit would ask me this. My file (the original - emacshelp.org) was saved with C-x C-s AND even C-x s to save all files. But it didn’t matter how I answered that question, it would keep asking it no matter what. No matter what I did, it kept asking me that question, over and over and over again. Because of that “backup” file.

Note: This is behaviour which *only* happened with this single file, not with any other file I use.

Finally, putting = = around [/] in my notes to produce: =[/]= escaped that behaviour. It no longer does that. It took me an hour of rebuilding my file line by line to figure out *why* this was happening, but that was the line and that was the exact problem.

I don’t know why it did that but I *suspect* (and remember I’m a personal assistant, not a coder) that since URLs start and end with [] in org-mode, it may be trying to look for some sort of url fetch thing? Like it’s a broken link it’s trying to figure out? Hence the port number in the backup file name? I honestly don’t know and I’m not the person to ask. 🙃

That’s all I can say about it.  That’s all the info that I have. I hope that I was more clear this time. 🙃 TYSM for trying to help and again sorry for the delayed response.

Summer.


> On Sep 7, 2023, at 12:12, Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> wrote:
> 
> Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> lock file?  in 27 (info "(emacs) Interlocking") strangely does not
>> mention .# but it could be the concept in question.
> 
> #... is a backup file. There is nothing wrong or surprising about it.
> 
> However, the bug report is not clear enough for me to try reproducing
> things on my side. I am even not sure what exactly is the problem - is
> it creating the backup (which is normal) or is it save confirmation
> dialogue?
> 
> That's why I asked more details.
> 
> -- 
> Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
> Org mode contributor,
> Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
> Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
> or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: Possible File Saving Bug with [/]?

[Ihor Radchenko]

Summer Emacs <summeremacs@summerstar.me> writes:

> 3) In one of the headers, it looked something like this:
> * C-c C-c on [/] to update done items in todo list.
>
> That [/] just like that was creating a backup file on every save named .#emacshelp.org# —> summer@summer.local.23434:882343 (those are made up numbers but it was always random and looked something like that in the ls -la command in terminal.)

Saving .#emacshelp.org# backup files is controlled by your configuration
- it is the default Emacs behaviour to save them.

> Since I regularly add notes to my file, I also use Magit to save a backup copy (M-x g). But whenever I did that, it would ask if I wanted to save emacshelp.org. Obviously it was being affected by the backup file (which was never open in a buffer, it just was “there” in the directory).
>
> An example of Magit interaction for adding/committing changes to that file would look something like this: (from emacshelp.org file)
>
> 1) M-x g
> 2) Minibuffer: Do you want to save emacshelp.org? Y/n/etc…
> 3) s
> 4) Minibuffer: Do you want to save emacshelp.org? Y/n/etc…
> 5) c c
> 6) Minibuffer: Do you want to save emacshelp.org? Y/n/etc…
> ...

This is abnormal.

> You get the idea. Every single thing I did in Magit would ask me this. My file (the original - emacshelp.org) was saved with C-x C-s AND even C-x s to save all files. But it didn’t matter how I answered that question, it would keep asking it no matter what. No matter what I did, it kept asking me that question, over and over and over again. Because of that “backup” file.
>
> Note: This is behaviour which *only* happened with this single file, not with any other file I use.

My suspicion that it is triggered by some kind of strange
`after-save-hook' in your config.

> Finally, putting = = around [/] in my notes to produce: =[/]= escaped that behaviour. It no longer does that. It took me an hour of rebuilding my file line by line to figure out *why* this was happening, but that was the line and that was the exact problem.

[/] in Org is called statistics cookie and some parts of Org may alter
it to refresh TODO/checkbox statistics. See "5.5 Breaking Down Tasks
into Subtasks".

However, I do not see why this should happen _after_ save, unless
something in your config is triggering the update.

Without more information, I cannot provide more assistance
unfortunately. I also do not see how we can help on Org side as the
problem _appears_ to be with your personal config.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: Possible File Saving Bug with [/]?

[Summer Emacs]

> On Sep 7, 2023, at 12:49, Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> wrote:
> 
> Summer Emacs <summeremacs@summerstar.me> writes:
> 
>> 3) In one of the headers, it looked something like this:
>> * C-c C-c on [/] to update done items in todo list.
>> 
>> That [/] just like that was creating a backup file on every save named .#emacshelp.org# —> summer@summer.local.23434:882343 (those are made up numbers but it was always random and looked something like that in the ls -la command in terminal.)
> 
> Saving .#emacshelp.org# backup files is controlled by your configuration
> - it is the default Emacs behaviour to save them.
> 

Yes, I know. 🙃

>> Since I regularly add notes to my file, I also use Magit to save a backup copy (M-x g). But whenever I did that, it would ask if I wanted to save emacshelp.org. Obviously it was being affected by the backup file (which was never open in a buffer, it just was “there” in the directory).
>> 
>> An example of Magit interaction for adding/committing changes to that file would look something like this: (from emacshelp.org file)
>> 
>> 1) M-x g
>> 2) Minibuffer: Do you want to save emacshelp.org? Y/n/etc…
>> 3) s
>> 4) Minibuffer: Do you want to save emacshelp.org? Y/n/etc…
>> 5) c c
>> 6) Minibuffer: Do you want to save emacshelp.org? Y/n/etc…
>> ...
> 
> This is abnormal.

I know this too. 🙃

> 
>> You get the idea. Every single thing I did in Magit would ask me this. My file (the original - emacshelp.org) was saved with C-x C-s AND even C-x s to save all files. But it didn’t matter how I answered that question, it would keep asking it no matter what. No matter what I did, it kept asking me that question, over and over and over again. Because of that “backup” file.
>> 
>> Note: This is behaviour which *only* happened with this single file, not with any other file I use.
> 
> My suspicion that it is triggered by some kind of strange
> `after-save-hook' in your config.

Perhaps - but see below.

> 
>> Finally, putting = = around [/] in my notes to produce: =[/]= escaped that behaviour. It no longer does that. It took me an hour of rebuilding my file line by line to figure out *why* this was happening, but that was the line and that was the exact problem.
> 
> [/] in Org is called statistics cookie and some parts of Org may alter
> it to refresh TODO/checkbox statistics. See "5.5 Breaking Down Tasks
> into Subtasks".
> 
> However, I do not see why this should happen _after_ save, unless
> something in your config is triggering the update.
> 

This is why I reached out. It *only* happens if I put [/] in an org file and save it. I thought maybe that it was a bug in org because it’s trying to eval it without any numbers in it, and no list under it, so maybe it’s just borked in some way in that specific circumstance. Other than that, I have no idea.

> Without more information, I cannot provide more assistance
> unfortunately. I also do not see how we can help on Org side as the
> problem _appears_ to be with your personal config.
> 

Again: My config works with all of my other files. Every single one. Org files, md files, .txt files - you name it. It’s *only* when I put [/] in an org file just like that. That’s the only time my saves/backups ever borked on me. So that’s why I reached out. If my config was doing this in general, I wouldn’t have thought it was an Org issue. But since it *only* occurs with an org file which has an empty [/] and no list under it, I thought maybe it would be an org issue. I could be wrong, but since that’s what triggers it…you tell me.

As for it being an inconvenient: it’s not. Since I escape the [/] with = =, it doesn’t do that anymore. So no worries there. It’s the only example I have where I use that without a list under it for it to evaluate. So it’s not actually an issue anymore. I just figured I would call your attention to it possibly being a bug if that ever happens again to somebody else. 🙃

Thanks! 🙃

> -- 
> Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
> Org mode contributor,
> Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
> Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
> or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: Possible File Saving Bug with [/]?

[Ihor Radchenko]

Summer Emacs <summeremacs@summerstar.me> writes:

>> Without more information, I cannot provide more assistance
>> unfortunately. I also do not see how we can help on Org side as the
>> problem _appears_ to be with your personal config.
>> 
>
> Again: My config works with all of my other files. Every single one. Org files, md files, .txt files - you name it. It’s *only* when I put [/] in an org file just like that. That’s the only time my saves/backups ever borked on me. So that’s why I reached out. If my config was doing this in general, I wouldn’t have thought it was an Org issue. But since it *only* occurs with an org file which has an empty [/] and no list under it, I thought maybe it would be an org issue. I could be wrong, but since that’s what triggers it…you tell me.

So, it is even more specific: Org + your config + specific file.
Which may or may not mean a real problem on Org side, but I cannot tell
without information sufficient for me to replicate the problem locally.

> As for it being an inconvenient: it’s not. Since I escape the [/] with = =, it doesn’t do that anymore. So no worries there. It’s the only example I have where I use that without a list under it for it to evaluate. So it’s not actually an issue anymore. 

Good to hear that you do not need to deal with it any more.

> ... I just figured I would call your attention to it possibly being a bug if that ever happens again to somebody else. 🙃

Thanks!

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>