From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "J.P." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#73812: 30.0.91; ERC 5.6.0.30.1: Customizing erc-modules loads ERC when starting Emacs Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2024 23:43:43 -0700 Message-ID: <87sesakue8.fsf__7141.21851358271$1730529880$gmane$org@neverwas.me> References: <87o73mgjk3.fsf@neverwas.me> <865xptsh6f.fsf@gnu.org> <87h69ddz5l.fsf@neverwas.me> <86bjzhopaz.fsf@gnu.org> <87ttd947pg.fsf@neverwas.me> <87ed3z1tut.fsf@neverwas.me> <87cyjepihk.fsf@neverwas.me> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="29444"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: 73812@debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , Andrea Corallo , emacs-erc@gnu.org, Stefan Kangas To: Corwin Brust Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 02 07:44:31 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1t77s6-0007Xn-7E for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2024 07:44:30 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t77rj-0006iD-Ag; Sat, 02 Nov 2024 02:44:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t77rg-0006hg-AO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2024 02:44:04 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t77rg-0008P6-1a for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2024 02:44:04 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=debbugs.gnu.org; s=debbugs-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-To:From:To:Subject; bh=Wy2+Sbvcb190dyE8kbnWtgQ/b3cJMbtRLM0G5BT31G8=; b=rP+daSQJtC8feWwMEmakLlrAlxAB0wOyDXHV8efpw+22rIwjU+jHAvVr4GFGfC5VZ1dHJ6gt6DsEXWg8+hlvH+diAGl/8O5VWhIA/f7Sl0vflHWL2OrcruMc6GMaSvxcoHOkz422H6FH2d2EAQs3kCtyjePfPtaaWoy1pG0+CWTu8xcvg+VH5+NhAyAXo/Sp6HJR96jqHW6h/+JcnpljFURvflcBe4cYRVJ7fTr5BGAjkqG5NF+ceMjDQFBAwRY/iWBUqoY5Zv/V0MXtvEnIPNEMweSFmkLZ0ER6scL1fvuKIJrS2OKEK05DfgRSMRngY9JW5DZtDdKY1ygWdZJW9g==; Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1t77rd-0007WE-SR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2024 02:44:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: "J.P." Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2024 06:44:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 73812 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch Original-Received: via spool by 73812-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B73812.173052983328887 (code B ref 73812); Sat, 02 Nov 2024 06:44:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 73812) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Nov 2024 06:43:53 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52930 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1t77rU-0007Vr-Tf for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2024 02:43:53 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-108-mta187.mxroute.com ([136.175.108.187]:35999) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1t77rS-0007Vl-R3 for 73812@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Nov 2024 02:43:52 -0400 Original-Received: from filter006.mxroute.com ([136.175.111.3] filter006.mxroute.com) (Authenticated sender: mN4UYu2MZsgR) by mail-108-mta187.mxroute.com (ZoneMTA) with ESMTPSA id 192eb9d9a630003e01.002 for <73812@debbugs.gnu.org> (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384); Sat, 02 Nov 2024 06:43:47 +0000 X-Zone-Loop: 9c1f3921287faf15dc0aa99e0d6ae55a4e02b2d60cc5 X-Originating-IP: [136.175.111.3] DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=neverwas.me ; s=x; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date: References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Wy2+Sbvcb190dyE8kbnWtgQ/b3cJMbtRLM0G5BT31G8=; b=P1dYMyRkwxWa4WFRVI3hlg9sol HqHrngiosxAhirJt/AnYOJufF9w8Zf4BzJRSAeoMRnxAt6xRtmoRiN/mxpogM1/gvEbLhPJ4i0jjE V8LlCRW7YzHKOqXE1PwLZE06Aqhyc8Gf6SuuJK/pBFt+kntG7fjIC9q3ry9T+MZPRQ6IaZcLhS17R gHA3JZev4Yvg8VG8HLKEnZ2kX+qAoMZSQBp0w09zBNVJUw+jUa6/17hxxjK+DcARA98YpGRaxJr2l UIo7pck+bPtDlJ/w6tLmWg+64J372L1yPrbSN6wiGVFfYCnhOTZh73fPQxH6hHqvHe+baOK1Mw0eW +fscMaaQ==; In-Reply-To: (Corwin Brust's message of "Fri, 1 Nov 2024 21:37:06 -0500") X-Authenticated-Id: masked@neverwas.me X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:294717 Archived-At: Hi Stefan, Corwin, all, Corwin Brust writes: > Hi All, > > On Fri, Nov 1, 2024 at 9:05=E2=80=AFPM Stefan Kangas wrote: >> >> "J.P." writes: >> >> I can only add that some of our users are very concerned with Emacs's >> startup time, and spend a lot of time optimizing it. Unexpectedly >> pulling in all of ERC in some cases certainly won't help them. >> >> > "J.P." writes: >> > >> >> Eli Zaretskii writes: >> >> >> >>>> All in all, I'd prefer to leave this alone in Emacs 30. We have ti= me >> >>>> to try reverting this on master and seeing whether it's a net win o= r a >> >>>> net loss, given the past history of the issue. (AFAIU, if you remo= ve >> >>>> this line, some change is pertinent in the manual?) >> >> >> >> It's been reverted on master for ten days now with no complaints: >> >> >> >> https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/commit/?id=3D1854f275 >> >> >> >> If that's long enough to qualify as a net win, can we proceed with a >> >> backport? >> > >> > It's been two weeks now since I was tasked with reverting this on mast= er >> > in order to assess the damage, of which none has since been reported. >> > >> > Apologies if I'm out of line in pressing the issue, but I'm driven by a >> > need to advocate for ERC's users, who've suffered greatly in the past >> > due to my cowardliness in similar situations [1]. As such, I would very >> > much appreciate a final verdict on this matter. >> >> I assume that we are talking about cherry-picking commit 1854f2751e3f to >> the emacs-30 branch. Yes, exactly. FWIW, something like diff --git a/lisp/erc/erc.el b/lisp/erc/erc.el index 30641c2bd88..807ca81ed6b 100644 --- a/lisp/erc/erc.el +++ b/lisp/erc/erc.el @@ -2263,7 +2263,7 @@ erc--sort-modules (cl-pushnew mod (if (get mod 'erc--module) built-in third-party))) `(,@(sort built-in #'string-lessp) ,@(nreverse third-party)))) -;;;###autoload(custom-autoload 'erc-modules "erc") +;;;###autoload(custom-autoload 'erc-modules "erc" 'noset) (defcustom erc-modules '( autojoin button completion fill imenu irccontr= ols list match menu move-to-prompt netsplit does appear to suppress autoloading on startup while still fulfilling our original M-x customize-option RET mission (IOW, exactly what we want). However, I'd sooner just revert to the way things have been for 20+ years. ("Once bitten," as they say.) >> >> Can removing the autoload cookie cause an issue outside of ERC, or for >> non-users of ERC? If it cannot, I don't know that I'm in a better >> position than you, being the ERC maintainer, to determine what kind of >> negative impact removing it might have. If anything, it sounds like it >> is more risky for non-users of ERC to leave things as is? >> >> In summary, my view is that removing it should be low risk, and it fixes >> a known bug. It's arguably minor, but does affect startup performance. >> So I think it sounds good to have the patch on emacs-30. >> >> Let's see if Eli or Andrea has anything to add here first, though. >> > > Thank you JP and Stefan for diligence on this. I had flagged this for > a reply but did not manage to make one before now. (Two weeks > already? Good grief.) > > Perhaps importantly: I strongly suspect this bug is responsible for > corruption of my customize file. (Unfortunately I had a bunch of > stuff in there and wasn't good and pushed my changes to that > particular file to the repo where I version my config, so I've lost a > bit of work. On the plus side: it's generally of a cosmetic nature, > mostly face tweaks which I found it convenient to "try out" using > customize and then, because they were good, never got around to > encoding into proper elisp.) I didn't/haven't completed any sort of > minimal reproducer: I could be completely wrong that this bug is what > caused my configuration settings to get blown away. But the timing is > right. So sorry about your data loss and for whatever hand my sloppiness might have played in such a tragedy. It does indeed sound like a serious issue that bears investigating. Unfortunately, I'm still a certified dunce when it comes to all things Customize (but I do pledge to rectify this situation eventually). > > I will also mention, back to the "known issue" caused by this, that I > maintain separate "desktop shortcuts" for launching Emacs with and > without automatically launching ERC connections. It would be nice if > this arrangement (once again) had the intended effect of not loading > ERC when I'm not going to need it in the given session. > > In any event: +1 > > I'd be grateful to see this resolved before cutting 30.1 Appreciate the input as always.