From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Release plans Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 03:00:56 +0900 Message-ID: <87r68rh3xj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <20080812171404.GB7999@muc.de> <20080813092057.GA3010@muc.de> <20080814083817.GA2593@muc.de> <877iak7xfp.fsf@skyscraper.fehenstaub.lan> <873al79akr.fsf@skyscraper.fehenstaub.lan> <20080814103040.GB2593@muc.de> <87y72z7t3c.fsf@skyscraper.fehenstaub.lan> <20080814123917.GC2593@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1218736895 3334 80.91.229.12 (14 Aug 2008 18:01:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:01:35 +0000 (UTC) Cc: ams@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, Johannes Weiner , rms@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 14 20:02:25 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KTh9D-0004WM-5i for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 20:02:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46622 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KTh8G-0006bo-VQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 14:01:09 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KTh8E-0006bf-60 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 14:01:06 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KTh8C-0006bM-Kt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 14:01:05 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=48148 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KTh8C-0006bJ-EA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 14:01:04 -0400 Original-Received: from mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.223]:33580) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KTh82-0005Os-20; Thu, 14 Aug 2008 14:00:54 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A105C1535A8; Fri, 15 Aug 2008 03:00:51 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 090AA1A25C3; Fri, 15 Aug 2008 03:00:57 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: <20080814123917.GC2593@muc.de> X-Mailer: VM ?bug? under XEmacs 21.5.21 (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:102466 Archived-At: Alan Mackenzie writes: > The loadability of modules into the kernel has effects on the whole free > software community. Yeah, it forces free people to make free choices. This is a good thing. > The facility you want would allow people, in effect, to make proprietary > extensions to Emacs. That's FUD. According to the FSF legal staff, it is illegal to distribute non-GPLv3 modules intended for linking to Emacs. This restriction on dynamic loading doesn't change the legal status; it just makes it cheaper for the FSF to fight would-be violators and wake up those people who just don't bother to think about whether their distributions are violations. As Richard says, it's appropriate that the defenders of freedom pay an extra cost to show they value freedom. Emacs should get dynamically loadable modules. The kernel's strategy for require'ing GPL would work here, too. > We could end up with a firm like Linspire saying "our version of > Emacs is superior because it can access files over the X> protocol, It might cost the FSF to fight that, but they'd win. Don't defend freedom with FUD. If they can't win, then you could distribute Emacs as a .o with appropriate modules and have the user do the linking to the same effect. If the proprietary module is that attractive, you can bet people would do it. > There are other choices. You could, for example, write a module-loading > facility yourself, and thus distribute your own Emacs fork. You'ld not > make yourself popular though, any more than the Lucid Emacs crowd did a > long time ago. I resemble that remark, although I wasn't there at the time. Is it really worth offending those of us who choose to work on XEmacs when the cases are not parallel at all? The module-loading facility has long been available for both Emacs (as 3rd party patches, sorry, no URL offhand; maybe from the same source as XEmacs/CHISE at Kyoto U?) and XEmacs (standard since 21.4).