From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Obsoleting end-user-functions [was: turn-on-* type functions] Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 11:29:54 +0900 Message-ID: <87r5mupr6l.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <50365.130.55.132.97.1270318658.squirrel@webmail.lanl.gov> <622A6B6A-AC87-4229-B40D-CCD28A3B5C25@mit.edu> <7BC79A0C-3709-4FD4-A678-0F235B789213@mit.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1270435778 21422 80.91.229.12 (5 Apr 2010 02:49:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 02:49:38 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Chad Brown , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 05 04:49:23 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NycNM-0003pC-F6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 04:49:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52969 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NycNM-0001CI-00 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 04 Apr 2010 22:49:20 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NycNG-0001CD-9q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 04 Apr 2010 22:49:14 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=56072 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NycNE-0001C5-0G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 04 Apr 2010 22:49:12 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NycNC-0002rM-FO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 04 Apr 2010 22:49:11 -0400 Original-Received: from mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.223]:57524) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NycNC-0002qo-1k for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 04 Apr 2010 22:49:10 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A5561537B3; Mon, 5 Apr 2010 11:30:21 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3DEB11A38CA; Mon, 5 Apr 2010 11:29:54 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM 8.0.12-devo-585 under 21.5 (beta29) "garbanzo" a03421eb562b XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:123176 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: > [C]urrently we don't have any good way to obsolete end-user-functions, > since the obsolescence-info is only used by the byte-compiler Two easy, non-invasive ideas: (1) Have help functions such as describe-function present the o-info (and maybe apropos could have a very abbreviated notation) (2) Provide a help-obsolete (maybe apropos-obsolete is a better name?) function which lists all symbols with o-info in apropos style. > which the end-user is likely to never run on his .emacs). A harder, invasive idea: get rid of explicit byte-compilation, by default. If Emacs always byte-compiles out-of-date libraries at load time, the warnings would be generated. Rationale: I don't think I've ever seen a test-suite difference between byte-compiled and directly interpreted code in XEmacs, and only a few such bugs in beta testing or end use. Of course in the nature of Lisp there may need to be a way to inhibit byte compilation, but these days I think it's appropriate to require a flag of some kind (command-line option, Lisp variable) to inhibit.