From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Key bindings proposal Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 08:32:53 +0900 Message-ID: <87r5io1owq.fsf@catnip.gol.com> References: <19534.1494.627000.357123@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <87sk35upn2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <19535.3143.113000.779009@gargle.gargle.HOWL> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1280274051 12080 80.91.229.12 (27 Jul 2010 23:40:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 23:40:51 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 28 01:40:48 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OdtlI-00033K-GQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 01:40:48 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33352 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Odtkp-0000Rz-AV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 19:40:11 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=48902 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Odte6-0004CQ-O7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 19:33:20 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Odtdy-00009O-GC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 19:33:07 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:52456) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Odtdy-00009E-79 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jul 2010 19:33:06 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Odtdv-0000ep-TI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 01:33:03 +0200 Original-Received: from 218.231.154.125.eo.eaccess.ne.jp ([218.231.154.125]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 01:33:03 +0200 Original-Received: from miles by 218.231.154.125.eo.eaccess.ne.jp with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2010 01:33:03 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 27 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 218.231.154.125.eo.eaccess.ne.jp System-Type: x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu Cancel-Lock: sha1:svpXhjws6ytESJ5DYbhZXBqCbzA= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127896 Archived-At: Uday S Reddy writes: > It seems to me that these "actions" are a form of abstract operations. > The actions implemented by a mode can be regarded as its interface. I think it's a good idea (and have advocated it before), but no, it won't solve the problem of re-skinning. It would be nice for bringing a bit of order to commonly used operations, treated as singular events, but it does not do anything for uncommon operations -- which are probably the _majority_ of bindings in emacs (as opposed to simple editors like notepad) -- nor does it offer any help in avoiding conflicts (the "whack-a-mole problem" as someone in this thread so aptly put it) or preserving patterns which are an important feature of Emacs' current bindings or [e.g. the "n/f type bindings go forward", etc]. The thing is, so far everybody advocating "binding change" has been waving their hands, making vague feel-good statements, trotting out buzzwords, etc -- but to _really_ do it, somebody has to sit down and actually work out the painful details of how to handle the problems. Hand-waving and buzzwords aren't enough. -Miles -- Any man who is a triangle, has thee right, when in Cartesian Space, to have angles, which when summed, come to know more, nor no less, than nine score degrees, should he so wish. [TEMPLE OV THEE LEMUR]