From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Thierry Volpiatto Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Selection changes in revno 100822 Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 09:22:44 +0200 Organization: ThierryVolpiatto Message-ID: <87r5i02vcr.fsf@tux.homenetwork> References: <834oeyv3ww.fsf@gnu.org> <87mxsqyp98.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83zkwptyij.fsf@gnu.org> <4C66660D.3090603@swipnet.se> <83sk2htp82.fsf@gnu.org> <4C66A8C5.4040203@harpegolden.net> <83hbixte8c.fsf@gnu.org> <87wrrs276x.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <6ECBD0370E514CF9A796DCE4F366B46F@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1281857209 25706 80.91.229.12 (15 Aug 2010 07:26:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 07:26:49 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 15 09:26:47 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OkXcE-0006hE-Al for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 15 Aug 2010 09:26:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48637 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OkXcD-0000Ju-Mh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 15 Aug 2010 03:26:45 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=49858 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OkXaz-0008I7-2k for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Aug 2010 03:25:30 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OkXax-0006L1-Ij for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Aug 2010 03:25:29 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:45667) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OkXax-0006Kt-6h for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Aug 2010 03:25:27 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OkXat-0006M4-EW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Aug 2010 09:25:23 +0200 Original-Received: from 147.77.197-77.rev.gaoland.net ([77.197.77.147]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 2010 09:25:23 +0200 Original-Received: from thierry.volpiatto by 147.77.197-77.rev.gaoland.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 2010 09:25:23 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 84 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 147.77.197-77.rev.gaoland.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:SNIC+UQZl53r6/N69XD0yJWquI8= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:128728 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: "Drew Adams" >> Cc: , , >> "'David De La Harpe Golden'" >> Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 21:48:50 -0700 >> >> You don't say here whether selecting using the mouse copies to the >> kill-ring. > > Since the default value of mouse-drag-copy-region is now nil, it > doesn't by default. > >> And you don't say whether C-y after selecting with the mouse yanks what was >> selected. > > No, it doesn't yank, for the same reason (I think). > >> > if you mark a region with C-SPC and do C-w, you won't be able >> > to paste the text in with mouse-2, unlike earlier Emacs versions. >> >> My primary concern right now (because it is what I use most now) is the behavior >> on Windows, but I do care also about the behavior on other platforms. >> >> And I'm curious. What is the rationale for such behavior (C-w followed by >> mouse-2 will prevent it from yanking what was killed)? > > Apparently, the GUI recommendations on X are now that the primary > selection is used only in conjunction with the mouse, while the > clipboard is used only in conjunction with keyboard cut/paste (C-c, > C-v, etc.). IOW, mouse selection and mouse-2 style copy/paste is no > longer regarded as _the_ copy/cat-n-paste operations, only the > keyboard ops are. > > See David's mail a few hours ago in this thread. > >> Apparently C-SPC plus motion to select, followed by mouse-2, does >> yank what was selected (good) > > Since C-SPC+motion selects the text, and selected text is "yank"able > with mouse-2, yes. > >> but if you use C-w (or M-w, for that matter) before clicking >> mouse-2 then nothing is yanked (bad). > > If the text was selected with the mouse (or any other way that > activates the mark) prior to C-w, then you can still "yank" with > mouse-2, by virtue of that selection. So this is still "good" in most > use-cases. > >> I really don't understand what is going on (why). Is this all just about >> limiting Emacs to make it more like other apps on X? > > That's my current understanding, yes. "User expectations" and all > that. > >> AFAICS we haven't yet gotten a simple description of the proposed changes, in >> terms of how they will affect users: use cases, pros & cons, what will change >> and why. > > David's mail comes close, except that Emacs currently does not behave > 100% according to what he describes: > > clipboards aren't overwritten when you merely select text. > clipboards are overwritten when you cut/copy (C-x/C-c) > clipboards are not inserted when you click mouse-2. > clipboards are inserted when you paste (C-v) > primary selections are overwritten when you merely select text. > primary selections are not overwritten when you cut/copy (C-x/C-c) > (but they've probably already just been overwritten because you > selected text just before you cut/copied). > primary selections are inserted when you click mouse-2. > primary selections are not inserted when you paste (C-v) What is described here seem to be with CUA mode activated (C-x/C-c/C-v) isn't it? :-( So can you describe what yank/kill with defaults setting is actually supposed to do? -- Thierry Volpiatto Get my Gnupg key: gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 59F29997