From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Change `customize-save-variable' to work under "emacs -Q"? Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 10:51:38 +0900 Message-ID: <87r55wtget.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <877h7ok9cd.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87d3hgprjb.fsf@stupidchicken.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1310435531 578 80.91.229.12 (12 Jul 2011 01:52:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 01:52:11 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Tim Cross Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 12 03:52:07 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QgS8t-0004EC-9b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 03:52:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58269 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QgS8r-000323-VX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 21:52:06 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:57373) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QgS8U-00031U-Eo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 21:51:44 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QgS8R-0007vP-Bq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 21:51:41 -0400 Original-Received: from mgmt1.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.223]:53564) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QgS8Q-0007qI-Ok for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2011 21:51:39 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mgmt1.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D4003FA052C; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 10:51:33 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 182071A275C; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 10:51:39 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM 8.1.93a under 21.5 (beta31) "ginger" cd1f8c4e81cd XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 130.158.97.223 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:141961 Archived-At: Tim Cross writes: > At the same time, this can also be a source of frustration. For > example, if you run emacs -Q to test a recipe for a bug and find it > works, you cannot just run report-emacs-bug to submit the bug if your > mail settings depend on anything but the default values. You need to > copy the backtrace and other important information to a temporary > file, exit emacs and start again without the -Q switch and then submit > the bug. $ emacs -Q ;; reproduce non-crashing bug M-x report-emacs-bug RET ; get the environment right ;; edit the bug buffer as usual M-: (load-user-init-file) RET ; YMMV, this is XEmacs-specific IIRC ; XEmacs GUI provides a button, ; Emacs can easily do the same if ; it's not already available ;; fix up own address in bug report and send works for me. I do that kind of thing all the time, for the reasons you give. > Furthermore, the environment setting you include in the bug > report are now likely to be more complex and not a true reflection of > the actual environment that existed when you ran your recipe under > emacs -Q. This isn't a problem if done as above. There are surely other ways to accomplish the same thing, too, such as running a separate emacs -Q, formatting the bug buffer in the emacs -Q session, saving to a file, then running M-x report-emacs-bug in your main session, delete all the session information and C-x i the real bug report in. So this thread isn't about making life easier for bug reporters (who very likely don't remember the necessary settings the way Lars does, or even which variables to set, because assistant.el and Customize handle it for them), it's about making life easier for developers like Lars. Nothing wrong with that, but let's remember who benefits here. > One possibility might be to modify the code that manages/sets custom > variables check for the -Q switch and take some additional or > different steps if the -Q switch is also detected. Another possibility might be putting basic infrastructure stuff like mail settings in a different file, loaded on demand by the code that needs it. (Yeah, I know, deliberately putting all eggs in one basket is where this whole thing started.)