From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: GnuTLS for W32 Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2012 16:40:34 +0900 Message-ID: <87r4za3aml.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <877h17scdo.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87hb0b77nr.fsf@lifelogs.com> <8739bvs27m.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87ty4b4329.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87hb0b3yoe.fsf@lifelogs.com> <6ED011D5-E185-44C6-BB31-A445A4E5F83A@gmail.com> <87wr976otx.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87ipkq6yy5.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87boqi6tzz.fsf@linux-hvfx.site> <87ehve3ul8.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87lipl22xm.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87boqh20ha.fsf@lifelogs.com> <871urc46c9.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <739bsoysp.fsf@news.eternal-september.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1326008452 11988 80.91.229.12 (8 Jan 2012 07:40:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 07:40:52 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 08 08:40:48 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RjnN2-0000Nr-8b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 08:40:48 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42426 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RjnN1-0005bF-Ec for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 02:40:47 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:50149) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RjnMy-0005b9-UZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 02:40:45 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RjnMy-0005WQ-2C for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 02:40:44 -0500 Original-Received: from mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.224]:44452) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RjnMx-0005Vm-Gh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 08 Jan 2012 02:40:44 -0500 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C260C9707B9 for ; Sun, 8 Jan 2012 16:40:34 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id BB37B1A2FD1; Sun, 8 Jan 2012 16:40:34 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: <739bsoysp.fsf@news.eternal-september.org> X-Mailer: VM undefined under 21.5 (beta31) "ginger" 2dbefd79b3d3 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 130.158.97.224 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:147479 Archived-At: Richard Riley writes: > It was quite clear in the context what was meant by "emacs component" : > a component which contributes to a working and complete emacs > installation. In context, I don't disagree with that definition. I merely deny that GnuTLS is needed for a complete Emacs distribution in that sense from the point of view of the GNU Emacs project. I believe that Juanma and Eli would agree with me that those two points are the main ones, though we respectfully disagree with each other on many other grounds. > I dont want to bicker and be petty but felt Ted was getting a bit > of a hard time for merely wanting to make things better for the end > user and, more importantly, the new adopter. But this is not petty, it's fundamental! Proponents who argue that distribution of GnuTLS binaries is needed for Windows users are ignoring a very important distinction: users (new adopters) of the GNU System (and at lower priority, free OSes in general) vs. users of non-free OSes and OSes whose attractiveness is based on non-free software. Supporting the former is the policy of GNU Emacs; supporting the latter is not (though of course individual developers are free to contribute to such support if they like). I'm not sure that the above even applies to Ted, though. AIUI, you misread Ted's main argument, which is that an automatic notification service for security updates (not necessarily involving distribution of GnuTLS binaries for Windows users, though it *could* eventually do so) would be beneficial for (almost) all Emacs users and therefore the project.