From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eric Schulte Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: CL package serious deficiencies Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2012 06:42:35 -0700 Message-ID: <87r4y5e910.fsf@gmx.com> References: <33271707.post@talk.nabble.com> <87fwemcwlx.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> <87zkcubbfc.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> <87vcnibb9t.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> <5tr4y6z2pv.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87bopab5p6.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1328708608 25902 80.91.229.3 (8 Feb 2012 13:43:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 13:43:28 +0000 (UTC) Cc: egnarts-ms , Lennart Borgman , Emacs-devel@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , Drew Adams To: Nix Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 08 14:43:24 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Rv7nu-0000lT-1o for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 08 Feb 2012 14:43:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35016 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rv7ns-0007v2-Q5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 08 Feb 2012 08:43:20 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:43873) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rv7nl-0007uo-Q9 for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Feb 2012 08:43:19 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rv7nf-0002SA-EC for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Feb 2012 08:43:13 -0500 Original-Received: from mailout-us.gmx.com ([74.208.5.67]:58308 helo=mailout-us.mail.com) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Rv7nf-0002Ri-7L for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Feb 2012 08:43:07 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 08 Feb 2012 13:43:04 -0000 Original-Received: from c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net (EHLO bagel) [174.56.1.147] by mail.gmx.com (mp-us008) with SMTP; 08 Feb 2012 08:43:04 -0500 X-Authenticated: #67821228 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/8qPt65yL8OHmmTPnguZybjYBjWmdaggxY6QrTHp snADuKTb70KnE5 In-Reply-To: <87bopab5p6.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> (nix@esperi.org.uk's message of "Tue, 07 Feb 2012 23:10:29 +0000") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.93 (gnu/linux) X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 74.208.5.67 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:148356 Archived-At: Nix writes: > On 7 Feb 2012, Glenn Morris uttered the following: > >> Nix wrote: >> >>> Well, if you find out what the problems are, I'll see about fixing them. >> >> You could look at > [...] >> if you want something to do (send any follow-ups to the relevant bug >> address, not here). > > Thanks! on the list... > >> Also none of these have any >> relevance to whether cl is acceptable to use at run-time. n> > So... unreliability is *not* the reason, after all? And documentation- > weightiness, as Tom points out, cannot be the reason. So... what *is* > the reason? I (and others, it seems) are distinctly curious. I was under the impression that the use of keyword arguments in cl.el was the reason that it was unpalatable to core Emacs devs. That and a general desire for elisp to be a simpler language than cl. Given that cl inclusion suddenly seems possible, I would like to say that from the perspective of working on Org-mode the availability of cl functions would be a great help. We already have at least the following Org-specific re-writes of existing cl-functions, and we frequently have to cull other cl functions from the code base. org-count org-find-if org-reduce org-remove-if org-remove-if-not M-x apropos "remove-if" yields the following 9 functions [1] all of which are currently distributed as part of Emacs. At this point I think there is an argument for cl inclusion simplifying Emacs, or at least making life easier for developers of Emacs packages. Cheers, Footnotes: [1] ert--remove-if-not Function: A reimplementation of `remove-if-not'. gnus-remove-if Function: Return a copy of SEQUENCE with all items satisfying PREDICATE removed. gnus-remove-if-not Function: Return a copy of SEQUENCE with all items not satisfying PREDICATE removed. org-remove-if Function: Remove everything from SEQ that fulfills PREDICATE. org-remove-if-not Function: Remove everything from SEQ that does not fulfill PREDICATE. recentf-remove-if-non-kept Function: Remove FILENAME from the recent list, if file is not kept. Properties: byte-optimizer remove-if Function: Remove all items satisfying PREDICATE in SEQ. Properties: autoload remove-if-not Function: Remove all items not satisfying PREDICATE in SEQ. Properties: autoload widget-remove-if Function: (not documented) -- Eric Schulte http://cs.unm.edu/~eschulte/