From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Florian Weimer Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Apologia for bzr Date: Sun, 05 Jan 2014 22:58:06 +0100 Message-ID: <87r48m2is1.fsf@mid.deneb.enyo.de> References: <20140103152117.GA16679@c3po> <20140104082857.GA22010@thyrsus.com> <20140105205645.GA12781@thyrsus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1388959102 704 80.91.229.3 (5 Jan 2014 21:58:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 21:58:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: toby-dated-1389972095.0848dd@dr-qubit.org, Richard Stallman , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: esr@thyrsus.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 05 22:58:27 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VzviD-0003j4-IW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 22:58:25 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59553 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VzviD-0006HD-8y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 16:58:25 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38312) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vzvi6-0006Gg-EJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 16:58:23 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vzvi1-0003g0-Mk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 16:58:18 -0500 Original-Received: from ka.mail.enyo.de ([87.106.162.201]:42078) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vzvhw-0003fd-Fx; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 16:58:08 -0500 Original-Received: from [172.17.135.4] (helo=deneb.enyo.de) by ka.mail.enyo.de with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) id 1Vzvhu-0004mX-6K; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 22:58:06 +0100 Original-Received: from fw by deneb.enyo.de with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Vzvhu-0006CF-1T; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 22:58:06 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20140105205645.GA12781@thyrsus.com> (Eric S. Raymond's message of "Sun, 5 Jan 2014 15:56:45 -0500") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 87.106.162.201 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:167402 Archived-At: * Eric S. Raymond: > Richard Stallman : >> We could even offer that as the mode of use for beginners, if that >> would make it easier for a new generation of hackers to become Emacs >> users. I don't know whether it WOULD have that effect, but if it >> would, I think it is a good idea. > > I'm somewhat doubtful this would be well-directed effort. In my > experience, he complexity that beginners react badly to is not > multi-window/multi-buffer, it's 1,001 spiky keystroke sequences. Probably. But exposing windows as tabs by default could be both familiar and a bit helpful. Relocating the modeline and minibuffer to the top of the frame might increase familiarity as well.