From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: mapping data formats imported from C libraries Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 07:59:04 -0500 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <87r3wqazjb.fsf@lifelogs.com> References: <2497111.a8jb1YoNy0@descartes> <87fvd9pho8.fsf@gmail.com> <877fyj63v8.fsf_-_@lifelogs.com> <8761e3dz55.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87wq6jcjys.fsf@lifelogs.com> Reply-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417006757 3225 80.91.229.3 (26 Nov 2014 12:59:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 12:59:17 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 26 13:59:10 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XtcBZ-0003Dz-NX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 13:59:09 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33615 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XtcBZ-0006xc-EN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 07:59:09 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55464) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XtcBD-0006xF-4o for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 07:58:52 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XtcB7-000198-63 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 07:58:47 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:53419) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XtcB6-000193-VL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 07:58:41 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XtcB3-0002nj-Ow for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 13:58:37 +0100 Original-Received: from c-98-229-61-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net ([98.229.61.72]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 13:58:37 +0100 Original-Received: from tzz by c-98-229-61-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 13:58:37 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Lines: 46 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-98-229-61-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" Mail-Copies-To: never User-Agent: Gnus/5.130012 (Ma Gnus v0.12) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:YQzwNuOcKE8/lcmvWti4PkNAEIg= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:178294 Archived-At: On Tue, 25 Nov 2014 18:06:37 +0100 Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote: LMI> Ted Zlatanov writes: >> Yes, but in a really sucky way. If you look at the libjson and json.el >> output, it's much leaner. Mapping JSON up to XML pretty much guarantees >> pain when you use it and on the way back. Do you want to inflict that >> on everyone in the name of a unified DOM? LMI> The Emacs DOM is quite non-sucky. It's just a tree. LMI> (thing ((attrib . value)) (foo) (bar)) LMI> JSON maps onto it really nicely. The attributes are always nil, though. Yeah, I've seen the mess that libxml2 and json.el produce (not the coder's fault, it's just a pain to adapt without native types). It doesn't help that XML/SGML and Lisp are inbred cousins :) * it's a pain to distinguish JSON's `false' and `null' while using them in code * in json.el you pick the key-value storage method! yay! * in json.el you pick the array storage method! yay! * JSON data is not a tree My ideal mapping from libjson and libyaml would be: * unambiguous: you can reconstruct a canonical version of the input stream from the parse data, as much as possible (JSON is better at this) * native: you can iterate over JSON arrays as Lisp lists, and JSON key-value mappings as alists. JSON's `false' and `null' are both false in Lisp boolean context. * clean: no extra cons cells for attributes * readable: this is huge IMO, to be able to pretty-print the data and quickly see what it contains... one of the things I like about JSON vs. SGML/XML. The ideal thing may be a "libjson/libyaml native" data format that can then be bidirectionally mapped to the DOM you suggest... Ted