From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Defending GCC considered futile Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 19:41:27 +0100 Message-ID: <87r3txr4mg.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <20150207202952.1042BC00A6@snark.thyrsus.com> <87wq3rocqb.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20150209172445.290dc20e@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <83mw4m8mi8.fsf@gnu.org> <54D9C18B.7060302@dancol.org> <8361b992tc.fsf@gnu.org> <54DA4BCE.8030804@dancol.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1423593706 7247 80.91.229.3 (10 Feb 2015 18:41:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 18:41:46 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@snark.thyrsus.com, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , perry@piermont.com, stephen@xemacs.org To: Daniel Colascione Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 10 19:41:45 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YLFkl-00066G-9Z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 19:41:43 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41328 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YLFkk-00075F-Qa for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 13:41:42 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41052) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YLFkg-00072Q-HB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 13:41:39 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YLFkf-0007us-7W for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 13:41:38 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:34372) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YLFkf-0007uo-4K for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 13:41:37 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41547 helo=lola) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YLFkX-00072d-9e; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 13:41:29 -0500 Original-Received: by lola (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 01B0FE0514; Tue, 10 Feb 2015 19:41:27 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <54DA4BCE.8030804@dancol.org> (Daniel Colascione's message of "Tue, 10 Feb 2015 10:19:58 -0800") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:182831 Archived-At: Daniel Colascione writes: > On 02/10/2015 07:57 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 00:30:03 -0800 >>> From: Daniel Colascione >>> CC: esr@snark.thyrsus.com, stephen@xemacs.org, rms@gnu.org,=20 >>> emacs-devel@gnu.org >>> >>>>> No, actually. Because the rest of the compiler wasn't intentionally >>>>> made non-modular, it was possible for the LLDB team to re-use the >>>>> code from the rest of the toolchain. LLDB doesn't need things like its >>>>> own expression parsing and interpretation code because it can call >>>>> into Clang/LLVM at will. >>>> >>>> Parsing source-code expression is a very small part of what GDB does. >>>> So this is a red herring. >>> >>> It's also one of the most frustrating parts of GDB. >>=20 >> I guess we have very different GDB experiences and/or needs, if this >> is a significant issue for you. I almost never need to type complex >> source-level expressions into a debugger. The reason is simple: >> almost every interesting value is already assigned to some variable, >> so most expressions I type are simple references to variables. > > Most STL structures are also sort of a nuisance to examine in gdb. I=A0don't actually have any point of comparison, but I would imagine that closer ties to a compiler could help here. Though much may be a question of how much can be stuffed into the debugging info. --=20 David Kastrup