From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@newcastle.ac.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs Book Vs Emacs Manuals Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 11:53:32 +0100 Message-ID: <87r3qnl70z.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> References: <87fv77barj.fsf@gnu.org> <87zj5fgpd8.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <83h9rnp0yy.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1431341640 10483 80.91.229.3 (11 May 2015 10:54:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 10:54:00 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon May 11 12:53:53 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YrlLL-0005L2-8i for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 11 May 2015 12:53:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36504 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YrlLK-0000jg-NZ for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 11 May 2015 06:53:50 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60643) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YrlLA-0000jb-5D for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2015 06:53:41 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YrlL9-00069d-5k for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2015 06:53:40 -0400 Original-Received: from cheviot22.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.234.22]:59984) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YrlL5-000667-DG; Mon, 11 May 2015 06:53:35 -0400 Original-Received: from smtpauth-vm.ncl.ac.uk ([10.8.233.129] helo=smtpauth.ncl.ac.uk) by cheviot22.ncl.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1YrlL3-0004Ds-DU; Mon, 11 May 2015 11:53:33 +0100 Original-Received: from jangai.ncl.ac.uk ([10.66.67.223] helo=localhost) by smtpauth.ncl.ac.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1YrlL2-00062s-9e; Mon, 11 May 2015 11:53:32 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83h9rnp0yy.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 8 May 2015 18:01:41 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 128.240.234.22 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:104365 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Barry Margolin >> Date: Fri, 08 May 2015 10:50:20 -0400 >> >> > No, it isn't, not in my Emacs. It mentions PageUp/PageDown on line 65 >> > and arrow keys on line 76. Subtract 15 lines of typographic >> > conventions and 13 more lines "left blank for didactic purposes", and >> > you get 37 and 48 lines to read until one sees these truisms -- a far >> > cry from 200. >> >> Aren't those part of moving the cursor around? Maybe you misunderstood >> him, he said that you have to read more than 200 lines until you learn >> something OTHER THAN how to move the cursor around. Line 263 (on my >> admittedly old version 22.3) is where it finally says "WHEN EMACS IS >> HUNG", the first non-movement section. > > Yes, I gave him the benefit of the doubt about that. If he really > meant what he said, then I don't understand the whole quip. What's a > tutorial about an editor supposed to start with, if not basic cursor > motion? Which other editor has its tutorial start with something > else? https://atom.io/docs/v0.198.0/ Starts with "why atom is cool". Then explains basic concepts (including "buffers" which mean exactly the same thing as in Emacs). The packages. It does have a section on moving around, including keybindings, but it starts by saying "using a mouse or the arrow keys works well". Their basic introduction also includes snippets, version control, autocomplete and folding. Phil