From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Pascal J. Bourguignon" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs Book Vs Emacs Manuals Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 13:27:01 +0200 Organization: Informatimago Message-ID: <87r3qncq2i.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> References: <554C9356.5000204@gmail.com> <20150508125314086261755@bob.proulx.com> <87bnhuc177.fsf@mbork.pl> <87y4kwcyti.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1431344440 23277 80.91.229.3 (11 May 2015 11:40:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 11:40:40 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon May 11 13:40:24 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Yrm4M-0006s8-Ad for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 11 May 2015 13:40:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36643 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yrm4L-0001iR-Py for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 11 May 2015 07:40:21 -0400 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 54 Original-X-Trace: individual.net EKQQhE+zc/wxZwh7VpzOcgGMokCJPdWr1Sp3lq/XNzxl8qo3Sq Cancel-Lock: sha1:MThiMTMzZjUxYmRjYTQ2MzJkOGNkMzZlNmQzMmJjM2U0OTAzOWM5OQ== sha1:Enu2ePpEy0KYaflbgD9A/68OZLg= Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAQMAAABtzGvEAAAABlBMVEUAAAD///+l2Z/dAAAA oElEQVR4nK3OsRHCMAwF0O8YQufUNIQRGIAja9CxSA55AxZgFO4coMgYrEDDQZWPIlNAjwq9 033pbOBPtbXuB6PKNBn5gZkhGa86Z4x2wE67O+06WxGD/HCOGR0deY3f9Ijwwt7rNGNf6Oac l/GuZTF1wFGKiYYHKSFAkjIo1b6sCYS1sVmFhhhahKQssRjRT90ITWUk6vvK3RsPGs+M1RuR mV+hO/VvFAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Accept-Language: fr, es, en User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:212085 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:104368 Archived-At: phillip.lord@newcastle.ac.uk (Phillip Lord) writes: > "Pascal J. Bourguignon" writes: >>> Now if the cursor-keys didn't work it would not be so bad >>> And ideal would be for them to work AND be documented >>> But works and NOT documented/demoed in tutorial... and there are serious >>> allegations of ATTITUDE! >> >> I can't believe it. Do you teach retards? > > > I teach intelligent, interested and engaged students, whom it is my > pleasure and privilege to introduce to programming, and show them how to > take charge of their own computers, and have the computers work for > them, rather than the other way around. I am sure that Rusi is in the > same position. > > Over time, the experiences of people change, and the knowledge that they > bring with them changes. This makes some things harder to understand, > some things easier. For instance, I have the majority of my students got > to grips with git in a day or two (which I was not expecting), > something which has caused grief here. But running "hello world" in > python in Emacs not easy. "Eval buffer" -- what's that then? And even > once you've done that, where has it gone, because the shell isn't > visible. Be careful, soon they'll complain when you make them use a keyboard instead of an iPad to write code… These days, I'm starting to think that there's a deficit of CS history teaching. When I started programming, modern computing was only 25 years old, so CS history was short, and even if not widely accessible outside of academia, it was rather easy to cover it all. While arguably nothing much has been invented since the end of the sixties, it appears that google doesn't give easy access to the history, giving some preference to new web sites and recent entries. And one must also consider that older papers and books are either not accessible or only accessible in the deep web or behind paywalls. Therefore it seems to me that teaching CS history would help students widden their horizons, given the diversity of languages and OSes already invented. -- __Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/ “The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to keep the man from touching the equipment.” -- Carl Bass CEO Autodesk