From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Artur Malabarba Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Option to not automatically customize-save-variable `package-selected-packages' Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 16:29:17 -0200 Message-ID: <87r3g8366a.fsf@gmail.com> References: <56C43D17.7010009@alice.it> <831t8aufoe.fsf@gnu.org> <8737sp51vx.fsf@gmail.com> <83fuwpubpn.fsf@gnu.org> <87egc9ahav.fsf@fastmail.fm> <834md5u426.fsf@gnu.org> <87vb5l664f.fsf@fastmail.fm> <83mvqxrqql.fsf@gnu.org> <87y4ag3l7s.fsf@gmail.com> <83si0or96s.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1455906630 15823 80.91.229.3 (19 Feb 2016 18:30:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 18:30:30 +0000 (UTC) Cc: joostkremers@fastmail.fm, johnw@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 19 19:30:25 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aWpot-0004BF-MZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 19:30:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54532 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWpot-00069n-0n for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 13:30:23 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58357) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWpop-00068j-AP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 13:30:20 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWpom-0002bM-3T for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 13:30:19 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-qg0-x233.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400d:c04::233]:36000) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aWpol-0002ac-U2; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 13:30:16 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-qg0-x233.google.com with SMTP id y9so68990627qgd.3; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 10:30:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=dqAkd/vEPjg51lq2UwKvxqlRSbWFPkNYXMk9KbGtwpA=; b=cBPVHElScgMlA/zYET9124gFjiPI5Li89hTrCgdsbewZY+3s2onJp3f6/mjVC0dnCv N86uCVm0opRKvy7GmzkUx8yLUDKuP0vqM0H0VouyGK/dban/3OvQsf7is5tyEpzchVm2 cCy1jUGYJB8Gr4dIj6Xiw/5XhV2Fif6HGx9AG8kYyMBUfPJ+XzCXVlnWoAxqCHPXyGb5 sIZKMj+BI9FRfJ/Xv64Neo52UxTet82F49+8RUEpQY5CscozaUsVeZbrf5oGHXv/hOhE v7tcl5Cif3OjiaIV0uX3iEtj4ao8oLzo7Tblxk6ETBK7VqIdVDBey4ekzFA1JZM7sZH6 cAdQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:date :in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=dqAkd/vEPjg51lq2UwKvxqlRSbWFPkNYXMk9KbGtwpA=; b=WJepSw4kyWMwOzxwrvE1Zd4yiCPo/5e1Jvvkwb0S/jRScttUplr1zcsjfZ9R7YeAce xfiA/ZBYEFgtVIsCuKv2JkXX4RD2jPdropBn66QdkWHuIky6dU40nfV8XO0QdwmXnVkb HsLmvXEQy/yj/eSf4y3qGAebos3nG1h4mBjNic5ImMHI/KpgzhQRxxrcdaLi0k8vYxbb IR4RS+QlxFJpjhTNVgHQD6ktcQtbrjETk6idnowGnFezqxHcz1iVZwmxlJS2Sn6BzcrH m6xcUjbQYvp2nzfw8ZhXKJ+16AJV7wpVy3vK1HNlA4Gr30K6ft8CFnNFprq8B38IUydR X86A== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YORN4hH24XYpnPXoYYc4qhFadU4z/CxQt+HdV7GkHtX8wL57Zs+RqMXtA24LEfQE2Q== X-Received: by 10.140.25.161 with SMTP id 30mr17597447qgt.73.1455906614809; Fri, 19 Feb 2016 10:30:14 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from Gandalf-Linux.gmail.com ([179.184.224.5]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v84sm275106qkl.15.2016.02.19.10.30.12 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 19 Feb 2016 10:30:13 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83si0or96s.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 19 Feb 2016 17:50:19 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.91 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400d:c04::233 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:200230 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> No, because package.el will still call `package--save-selected-packages' >> modifying the custom file, and the behaviour will depend on whether when >> even though the variable has been set via `setq'. This will keep >> the variable's value has been most recently set from the `setq' or from >> Custom. > > Then I guess this is the problem we need to solve, right? Customizing > the list of packages via Lisp that doesn't use custom-set-variables > ought to prevent Emacs from modifying the custom file. This would allow people to set it via setq, but that's not the prevalent complaint I see on this thread. Another complaint I see is =E2=80=9CI don't want my custom (or init) file b= eing programatically altered, for reason X=E2=80=9D. These complaints don't want= to manually keep track of their packages with a `setq'. They want package.el to keep working its magic automatically, but keep its hands off their custom files. >> Meanwhile, with regular customizations, the user can just turn the >> `custom-set-variables' call into a `setq' and trust that Emacs won't >> reintroduce that variable there. > > Now I'm confused: above you said "No" to my suggestion to do exactly > this, but now you seem to say that suggestion would solve the problem? > What did I miss? This sentence is explaining why _regular custom variables_ don't have the problem that `package-selected-packages' has. - _Regular custom variables_ don't get saved to the custom file without explicit user request, so it's easy to turn them into `setq's (which is what you were discussing). - OTOH, `package-selected-packages' _does_ get saved without explicit request, so it's hard for the user to turn it into a `setq'.