From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Gemini Lasswell Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#32487: 26.1.50; keyboard-quit while main thread blocked crashes Emacs Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 07:39:35 -0700 Message-ID: <87r2iqpis8.fsf@runbox.com> References: <876004r6ij.fsf@runbox.com> <83o9dvd9sk.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1534948762 16769 195.159.176.226 (22 Aug 2018 14:39:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 14:39:22 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: 32487@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 22 16:39:18 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fsUHy-00047K-5z for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 16:39:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59372 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fsUK2-0005bD-KZ for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 10:41:22 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57871) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fsUJo-0005ZS-Ky for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 10:41:09 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fsUJl-0000E7-7y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 10:41:08 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:52868) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fsUJi-0000CD-9H for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 10:41:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fsUJi-0003am-2g for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 10:41:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Gemini Lasswell Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 14:41:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 32487 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 32487-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B32487.153494884713779 (code B ref 32487); Wed, 22 Aug 2018 14:41:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 32487) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Aug 2018 14:40:47 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57886 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fsUJT-0003aB-GE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 10:40:47 -0400 Original-Received: from aibo.runbox.com ([91.220.196.211]:34830) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fsUJR-0003a2-8b for 32487@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 10:40:46 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=runbox.com; s=rbselector1; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=smwyoGDFJmO+DTebSQJQukchot0Ua4VJFtnoW6fhc6w=; b=bopJ9Y0aqJ9KpuuzfBkRHk1ujp qn1YMZaObz49zE5VHspfyY5vsk8C71jhDs8CwWD4X3UHO8QZQHA7KIcw/3fiOvgIVW0p2tQDWMzDL tl06zVW+Z6IpLEq+mu/lA5BTbJgD5dEGOnLJV6P07qEDJTBcTusVP/esEci72jEzYwH+uGOFLVRGc JLXPcQ6WWBGlEP99W8YFSa/mZrSwFFhsHVHhRpiUi4CDQcsvUxgGdan962WIBb5Xt1hxiro1DqH+f K4ZeNwigxGht8tZZ00I3kSYsR2hmK1Aceg+4Suvm294z+xJVCB9Pmt+uMLS0lnpjmcu/ccP3Vzaug 3qrhVdew==; Original-Received: from [10.9.9.211] (helo=mailfront11.runbox.com) by mailtransmit02.runbox with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fsUJP-0008Js-Sr; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 16:40:43 +0200 Original-Received: by mailfront11.runbox.com with esmtpsa (uid:179284 ) (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) id 1fsUIL-0006uU-Ow; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 16:39:38 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83o9dvd9sk.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 21 Aug 2018 18:22:19 +0300") X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:149661 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > That's ample punishment for a buggy program, don't you think? I thought so too at first, when I first came across this. But the reality is that new bugs get added to Emacs all the time, despite our best efforts, and the fact that C-g can't interrupt the thread primitives raises the risk of new bugs being severe bugs. If a user encounters a hanging bug in non-threaded Lisp, it's very likely that she can recover from it with C-g, and continue using Emacs. But if the user encounters a hanging bug in threaded Lisp, she will lose her Emacs session. Emacs is also a development environment, and it's a much less friendly place to develop programs when it's easy for buggy programs to crash the development environment. Obviously it's not hard to write Lisp that makes Emacs unresponsive or unusable, if you're trying to do that. But in the act of trying to write useful Lisp, it's been rare in my experience. With the thread primitives it's much easier to do unintentionally. Most of the time when I write buggy Lisp that stops responding, I can find out what the problem is by stopping it with C-g, using toggle-debug-on-quit, restarting my problematic code, C-g again. This doesn't work if the main thread is stuck in a thread primitive.