Why not org-tempo insert upcased strings?

Why not org-tempo insert upcased strings?

[tsuucat]

Hi,
I tried Emacs 27 and found org mode shortcuts such as <s doesn’t work and
then I found org-tempo.el.

However, org-tempo.el’s shortcuts insert downcased blocks (e.g. #+begin_src).
Is this intended?

And this commit https://code.orgmode.org/bzg/org-mode/commit/886ab9c766
may annoy org-tempo users.

--
tsuucat

Re: Why not org-tempo insert upcased strings?

[Kaushal Modi]

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On Fri, Apr 24, 2020, 2:52 AM tsuucat <tsuucat@icloud.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> I tried Emacs 27 and found org mode shortcuts such as <s doesn’t work and
> then I found org-tempo.el.
>
> However, org-tempo.el’s shortcuts insert downcased blocks (e.g.
> #+begin_src).
> Is this intended?
>

Yes, the convention is now to have downcased keywords.

>

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Re: Why not org-tempo insert upcased strings?

[tsuucat]

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> Yes, the convention is now to have downcased keywords. 
Thanks. Is the convention documented?

https://orgmode.org/manual/Structure-Templates.html#Structure-Templates <https://orgmode.org/manual/Structure-Templates.html#Structure-Templates>
It doesn’t seems that The Org Manual uses such a convention.

--
tsuucat



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Re: Why not org-tempo insert upcased strings?

[Kyle Meyer]

tsuucat <tsuucat@icloud.com> writes:

>> Yes, the convention is now to have downcased keywords. 
> Thanks. Is the convention documented?
>
> https://orgmode.org/manual/Structure-Templates.html#Structure-Templates <https://orgmode.org/manual/Structure-Templates.html#Structure-Templates>
> It doesn’t seems that The Org Manual uses such a convention.

While the manual doesn't recommend which you should prefer (I don't
think), it does provide a rationale for its use of uppercase:

    (info "(org)Conventions")
    <https://yhetil.org/orgmode/87zhlhhwdo.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr/>

Re: Why not org-tempo insert upcased strings?

[tsuucat]

> tsuucat <tsuucat@icloud.com> writes:
> 
>>> Yes, the convention is now to have downcased keywords. 
>> Thanks. Is the convention documented?
>> 
>> https://orgmode.org/manual/Structure-Templates.html#Structure-Templates <https://orgmode.org/manual/Structure-Templates.html#Structure-Templates>
>> It doesn’t seems that The Org Manual uses such a convention.
> 
> While the manual doesn't recommend which you should prefer (I don't
> think), it does provide a rationale for its use of uppercase:
> 
>    (info "(org)Conventions")
>    <https://yhetil.org/orgmode/87zhlhhwdo.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr/>

Hmm…
According to etc/ORG-NEWS, org-tempo.el was introduced in Org 9.2.
Unfortunately the section doesn’t refer the change of convention.

Why the convention is changed in org-tempo?

--
tsuucat

Re: Why not org-tempo insert upcased strings?

[Kaushal Modi]

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On Mon, Apr 27, 2020, 4:35 AM tsuucat <tsuucat@icloud.com> wrote:

>
> > tsuucat <tsuucat@icloud.com> writes:
> >
> >>> Yes, the convention is now to have downcased keywords.
> >> Thanks. Is the convention documented?
> >>
> >> https://orgmode.org/manual/Structure-Templates.html#Structure-Templates
> <https://orgmode.org/manual/Structure-Templates.html#Structure-Templates>
> >> It doesn’t seems that The Org Manual uses such a convention.
> >
> > While the manual doesn't recommend which you should prefer (I don't
> > think), it does provide a rationale for its use of uppercase:
> >
> >    (info "(org)Conventions")
> >    <https://yhetil.org/orgmode/87zhlhhwdo.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr/>
>
> Hmm…
> According to etc/ORG-NEWS, org-tempo.el was introduced in Org 9.2.
> Unfortunately the section doesn’t refer the change of convention.
>
> Why the convention is changed in org-tempo?
>

I'm a bit hazy about this, but I believe that org-tempo got introduced
after this commit:
https://code.orgmode.org/bzg/org-mode/commit/13424336a6f30c50952d291e7a82906c1210daf0

This was a few years ago. There was even a discussion thread on this list
that showed preference to make that change.

https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2017-10/msg00449.html

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Re: Why not org-tempo insert upcased strings?

[Kyle Meyer]

Kaushal Modi <kaushal.modi@gmail.com> writes:

> On Mon, Apr 27, 2020, 4:35 AM tsuucat <tsuucat@icloud.com> wrote:
>
>> Why the convention is changed in org-tempo?
>
> I'm a bit hazy about this, but I believe that org-tempo got introduced
> after this commit:
> https://code.orgmode.org/bzg/org-mode/commit/13424336a6f30c50952d291e7a82906c1210daf0

org-tempo was added in 94f1a5843 (org-tempo.el: New file for expansion
of templates, 2017-12-05) and already existed at the time of that
commit, 13424336a (org-element: Prefer lower case letters for blocks and
keywords, 2018-01-24).

  $ git ls-tree -r 13424336a6f30c50952d291e7a82906c1210daf0 | grep tempo
  100644 blob 38d21de5e15b8fed0ac0a2b7737064e2a7842350	lisp/org-tempo.el
  100644 blob 20062feebe108a0cb9a32f2bf9bb6fdd03924833	testing/lisp/test-org-tempo.el

> This was a few years ago. There was even a discussion thread on this list
> that showed preference to make that change.
>
> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2017-10/msg00449.html

I'm just a passive observer, but I agree that that message
(87r2tmwcrv.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr) is probably the key one to point to.
It belongs to the thread that led to c04e357f3 (Replace easy templates
with org-insert-structure-template, 2017-11-05).  At that point, the
upper-case-inserting easy templates were replaced by the
lower-case-inserting org-insert-structure-template command.

Shortly after, Rasmus introduced org-tempo
(https://yhetil.org/orgmode/87mv2ya2ep.fsf@pank.eu/), which restored the
ability for easy-template-like "<s" expansion, but using
org-structure-template-alist and keeping with the decision to use lower
case.