From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: [External] : Re: not good proposal: "C-z " reserved for users Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 00:38:42 +0100 Message-ID: <87r1lj4jy5.fsf@posteo.net> References: <7eccb0b5-8371-e34a-3371-09b75e1a385a@yandex.ru> <877dnc4dwf.fsf@robertthorpeconsulting.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="7676"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) Cc: "joostkremers@fastmail.fm" , "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" , Robert Thorpe , Dmitry Gutov To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Feb 14 00:39:09 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lB4VJ-0001vD-IT for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 00:39:09 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40698 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lB4VI-00043G-KG for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 18:39:08 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36444) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lB4Uz-000432-AN for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 18:38:49 -0500 Original-Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:50829) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lB4Uw-0003yo-LX for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Feb 2021 18:38:49 -0500 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 759902400FD for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 00:38:44 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1613259524; bh=gK+b1t9SLGbjB13XLE4mOz0I5pnMHm3mDJqg1khOw8c=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=o1OT9L07YeFokke6mmFwTvQeeWUBbqGM8BcTeGWnqiIjMYro+nl+dF7v12t0WDNYV 3Wzj/F/QbUNk+vEp2PzD4g5eWs3hQ9AxeZLQioj5D7oGT8oRpeYb2mMuUS5xzi+Ir1 sqxEdvCncjQrRhyepKhyhIJiNGsK3pxg4bQIQYQoMYySy6pZb+NwzaynusFPXuFZ13 zXBRU9YwLyh6aiupSkedt0JvmlgfQmIhXmco0kjWB1tozHrCzgxDzy5pHIjR3hiZv8 xd2n2Ofu/nBWLyFsNe0FMeR4dFfTvcQG59b17ZC0mbMZHClVmsIY5bh6lvKd2ekuhH BR01FVlEgWScQ== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4DdRdb3s52z6tmD; Sun, 14 Feb 2021 00:38:43 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 13 Feb 2021 20:48:11 +0000") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:127983 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Drew Adams writes: >> Yes. But I don't think that solves the problems that Gregory Heyting >> and Drew Adams are talking about. >>=20 >> Firstly, it can't do anything about changes in keybindings in future >> Emacs versions. Drew tells us that Emacs has recently mapped "C-x x", >> "C-x p" and "C-x /". I'm using Emacs 27.1, so all of those must have >> been mapped for Emacs 28 (or perhaps the version after that). > > To be clear, my understanding, from following bug > and emacs-devel threads, is as follows. Anyone > can correct me if I'm mistaken in any way. > > 1. `C-x p' was recently grabbed as a prefix key > for Project (by Dmitry, in fact) - over my pleas > and arguments not to. That was maybe 8 months ago? > > Bookmark+ had, for many years, lots and lots of > keys on that prefix key. The only arguments by > Dmitry in favor of grabbing that key for Project > were, in effect, (a) we want to do it and (b) we > don't need to care what Bookmark+ has been using. > OK. > > As a result of that, I changed Bookmark+ last July > to use `C-x x' instead. (There was no mention of > `C-x x' in that discussion, and it was unbound.) > > 2. Recently, Lars decided to bind `revert-buffer' > to `C-x x g'. There was subsequent discussion > about using that prefix key `C-x x' for things > related to buffers, in general. I don't know > exactly what's been done in that regard. > > Needless to say, I again objected, saying that > I've moved Bookmark+ keys from prefix `C-x p' to > `C-x x', and asking that they not now usurp also > `C-x x'. But AFAIK, `C-x x' has, yes, now been > grabbed by Emacs as a default global binding. > > (There was quite a lot of objection, BTW, to the > idea that Emacs needs a _global_ key for reverting > a buffer. I'm not even sure there was _anyone_ > arguing in favor of that, besides the maintainer > who came up with the idea.) > > 3. There was talk in emacs-devel (or a bug thread?) > about binding `C-x /' by default. I don't know > what finally happened in that regard. But I chimed > in about that too, saying that I use that prefix key > for zones.el. I mentioned this while pointing out > there is a _general_ problem here: Emacs grabbing > more keys for default bindings, leaving 3rd-party > code with fewer and fewer options. > > 4. I'll mention too that for Bookmark+ when I > changed from `C-x p' to `C-x x' I added a user > option for which key to use. So users can deal > with the new conflict themselves, if I don't > end up trying yet another key as the default. I hope I'm not oversimplifying, but doesn't this demonstrate the problem with third-party code when it attempt to bind maps or commands by default? Default keybindings can be safely overridden (I myself have done so for multiple keys C-x C-r, C-x u, M-u/l/c, M-/, ...), so as Dmitry says, the users may override project.el's map or move it somewhere else, as long as a package like bookmark+ does not insist on a specific prefix? I am not familiar with bookmark+, so maybe I am missing something... =2D-=20 Philip K. --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQHHBAEBCAAxFiEEbW+YL3e0aNnYosjIGB9bla4wszYFAmAoYwITHHBoaWxpcGtA cG9zdGVvLm5ldAAKCRAYH1uVrjCzNkhoDACTYFWBhV9RjAUbEyEd5N04NVFSoI3N SYH7CrfTxhg6hDZb2K6T6tkpdw1bHhRu59760R2T41VG7PUhGQBHrRbc9XNypHTE k561QkDiLO5ssA8/oQ0OfpukjE/EIL+HlcWO2ZK8p9EG0FWS1O0OqFrXIwEaAoAr HRR65xNzSeH+pjb4uX5pTI4FmaiRGxuuGcvhjuUNGq6frEo1yxP9fL+okQWrPARh eYHWIa9HBOxt5DsfFHssnQXtN0CVzeD6HaCnb4itpsu9QH1bNJTkTgxGdHspHmzw HN8px1Qg/vEfUclc4AMKPlOtkGdKx7jjNmJulUyni7V4d9kJJp1lgKrwI1QmgBGh UhWgjeqdwTT46oqOU21zgYpq09G0YeUTX/eUjoe4zOsoUePNDicUV+mpgZzrCj0K ToqMnO5ilnR8Kr3CUdVsHGRP6RlQ/++j1kr3ogxkTZEUR+T2ebyF/SACGwJzxrSG HJ8R7bd1phIzs5ncAPd3YkG9Z9Z9GX5Ba60= =EOfz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--