From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2021 09:06:21 +0200 Message-ID: <87r1d5w7f6.fsf@gnus.org> References: <16338bdc2497fc51c6fb6d54ab370bfb@webmail.orcon.net.nz> <831r59kyhf.fsf@gnu.org> <834ka4k15m.fsf@gnu.org> <83y27gijmz.fsf@gnu.org> <8335pmgnjy.fsf@gnu.org> <604da2cb10ac61f2b8b89a02c89056be@webmail.orcon.net.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25214"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Phil Sainty , Alan Mackenzie , Eli Zaretskii , =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= , Emacs developers To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 01 09:07:41 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mWCdx-0006JR-1B for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 09:07:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34596 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWCdv-0003a4-Mv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 03:07:39 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35374) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWCcn-0001J7-DM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 03:06:29 -0400 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2]:40498) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWCcl-0000AE-On; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 03:06:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=xIzePvzEzahUQf3lIbQIHh4xM02XimOS3FPc69ubY4I=; b=ublIIE/2jk/W379FAPPJ80rudW NFI9bgbfTJoVrqDGWNmVBvWYTIU6cDZfGtr1U1LV7Te7iw1Y7CfKY+sC07rGv3rVVGhZGl3kLN1/I rhCCJwvZrQqmG3e+PWYpUMVwtAudvcPBU/wGBakMD1JS/2wI+o/V7+hf0c9Oj6VPw8As=; Original-Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mWCcf-0006Jg-LL; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 09:06:24 +0200 Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAAAlQTFRF 0K6PNzEs////OZlX6wAAAAFiS0dEAmYLfGQAAAAJcEhZcwAACxIAAAsSAdLdfvwAAAAHdElNRQfl CgEGJjcHvwXMAAAASElEQVQoz2NgGCYgNBTBZgwNdYBzWENDA+Ac0dBQFyQtoa5YOYwgjgMuTihx nBAHJKNDkTmO2J3DGhoigvCCgyjCCyieG9oAACIWFVbu726BAAAAWmVYSWZNTQAqAAAACAAFARIA AwAAAAEAAQAAARoABQAAAAEAAABKARsABQAAAAEAAABSASgAAwAAAAEAAgAAAhMAAwAAAAEAAQAA AAAAAAAAAEgAAAABAAAASAAAAAEfUvc0AAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIxLTEwLTAxVDA2 OjM4OjU1KzAwOjAw4LNwDgAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMS0xMC0wMVQwNjozODo1NSsw MDowMJHuyLIAAAAXdEVYdGV4aWY6WUNiQ3JQb3NpdGlvbmluZwAxrA+AYwAAADh0RVh0aWNjOmNv cHlyaWdodABDb3B5cmlnaHQgKGMpIDE5OTggSGV3bGV0dC1QYWNrYXJkIENvbXBhbnn5V3k3AAAA IXRFWHRpY2M6ZGVzY3JpcHRpb24Ac1JHQiBJRUM2MTk2Ni0yLjFXrdpHAAAAJnRFWHRpY2M6bWFu dWZhY3R1cmVyAElFQyBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmllYy5jaBx/AEwAAAA3dEVYdGljYzptb2RlbABJRUMg NjE5NjYtMi4xIERlZmF1bHQgUkdCIGNvbG91ciBzcGFjZSAtIHNSR0JEU0ipAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: The Notwist's _Vertigo Dubs Vol. 1: Odd Nosdam_: "Ship (Odd Nosdam Remix)" In-Reply-To: (Stefan Kangas's message of "Fri, 1 Oct 2021 02:44:25 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2; envelope-from=larsi@gnus.org; helo=quimby.gnus.org X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:275956 Archived-At: Stefan Kangas writes: > On a separate note, but related to my misgivings: If this really is > mostly about s.el, dash.el and f.el, I think it is problem that this > is featured so prominently in the ELisp manual. To my eyes, what we > have now is basically an implicit recommendation and a statement that > it is unproblematic for general use. I believe there is a clear risk > that users will use this feature in ways that many of us AFAIU (from > reading this thread) would expressly rather avoid. Yes, making the manual less enthusiastic about this sounds like a good idea to me. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no