From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Aymeric Agon-Rambosson Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Finalizing 'inhibit-automatic-native-compilation' Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2023 08:26:09 +0100 Message-ID: <87r0uzcnam.fsf@X570GP> References: <837cx8cey0.fsf@gnu.org> <83357vauh5.fsf@gnu.org> <837cx6a8me.fsf@gnu.org> <83357ua6ja.fsf@gnu.org> <83zga28ra8.fsf@gnu.org> <83r0vd97s0.fsf@gnu.org> <83lell73yv.fsf@gnu.org> <87sffo3as7.fsf@melete.silentflame.com> <83v8kkxzzx.fsf@gnu.org> <87r0v811pm.fsf@melete.silentflame.com> <87cz6nxdqy.fsf@X570GP> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="1615"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.6.10; emacs 28.1 Cc: Sean Whitton , Eli Zaretskii , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, rlb@defaultvalue.org To: Andrea Corallo Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 09 08:52:32 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pQ1jM-0000Ce-CL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 09 Feb 2023 08:52:32 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pQ1ir-00041T-Q7; Thu, 09 Feb 2023 02:52:01 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pQ1K3-0005RH-KD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Feb 2023 02:26:24 -0500 Original-Received: from forward502a.mail.yandex.net ([2a02:6b8:c0e:500:1:45:d181:d502]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pQ1K0-0001F4-Tz; Thu, 09 Feb 2023 02:26:23 -0500 Original-Received: from vla3-178a3f795968.qloud-c.yandex.net (vla3-178a3f795968.qloud-c.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:c15:2584:0:640:178a:3f79]) by forward502a.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id E704B5E70C; Thu, 9 Feb 2023 10:26:11 +0300 (MSK) Original-Received: by vla3-178a3f795968.qloud-c.yandex.net (smtp/Yandex) with ESMTPSA id 9QYkCE0ZgqM1-YtVzuHno; Thu, 09 Feb 2023 10:26:11 +0300 X-Yandex-Fwd: 1 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yandex.com; s=mail; t=1675927571; bh=yIv8gbxgZfdX3gu4ILW8vxa1i5cUpPQJEAaa50U3Lk0=; h=Cc:Message-ID:References:Date:Subject:In-reply-to:To:From; b=R9NoFBNLIZAClw4GFbOjhER3IjAU9sLkzfWvDlm8zF5HZSwaPB6xphi2up5x5DHgg sDFUrFMtiXC1mDM2gKyde2ZMbh7XyDAlHk/I/6jkJ6suruBdkavI6FulZmUjwHwpMr cptjDBSPGOAw7YFuHbxp3b8ZuSNj3qu/XUdPUoXg= Authentication-Results: vla3-178a3f795968.qloud-c.yandex.net; dkim=pass header.i=@yandex.com In-reply-to: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a02:6b8:c0e:500:1:45:d181:d502; envelope-from=aymeric.agon@yandex.com; helo=forward502a.mail.yandex.net X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 09 Feb 2023 02:51:59 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:303063 Archived-At: Le mardi 7 f=C3=A9vrier 2023 =C3=A0 13:56, Andrea Corallo a= =20 =C3=A9crit : > Advising primitives is a dangerous action, it can lead the Emacs > machinery to malfunction anytime, these misbehaviors are not=20 > documented > and can change from version to version as from configuration to > configuration. The programmer who advises or redefines a=20 > primitive > should be ready to understand the underlying machinery and work=20 > out > potential issues (as it was done in this case). Agreed. Advising primitives was already frowned upon even before=20 native compilation, it always was dangerous. However, tests have=20 been doing this for quite some time. > I don't think this is a native comp specific problem, I'm sure=20 > one can > find similar examples also on non native comp enabled Emacses. This is very possible, but in the cases I mentioned (projectile,=20 yasnippet and beginend), the test failures or errors disappeared=20 when we excluded the primitives from trampoline=20 compilation. Sometimes, like in the projectile case, we were able=20 to track exactly what happened, and offer a convincing explanation=20 of the fix along with it. But that is not always the case : I have=20 offered patches for yasnippet and beginend that solve test=20 failures, and I can not completely justify them with anything=20 other than "it solves the issue I'm presenting". On top of that,=20 said issue has probably not been encountered by the upstream=20 maintainer (maybe because they had the trampolines already=20 available beforehand), we uncovered it with our specific build=20 setting. Those patches may or may not be accepted by the upstream=20 maintainers. My point being, the issues caused by widespread=20 primitive advice in the test suites of addon packages, that we=20 have just uncovered with trampoline compilation and our peculiar=20 build environment, will probably be there for a long time. And I=20 agree that this is the job of upstream maintainers to patch them,=20 but they will be probably be very slow to fix them. These examples were meant as an illustration of why we might want=20 to exclude primitives from trampoline compilation in the=20 (potentially quite long) meantime. Best, Aymeric