From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: GnuTLS for W32 Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2012 23:34:50 +0100 Message-ID: <87pqezqeph.fsf@wanadoo.es> References: <87aa64ubg9.fsf@wanadoo.es> <83boqkr9bp.fsf@gnu.org> <874nwcu17i.fsf@wanadoo.es> <834nwcr6un.fsf@gnu.org> <87vcosskhc.fsf@wanadoo.es> <831urgr2yr.fsf@gnu.org> <87r4zgsh2w.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87ipks3zbo.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87boqk3q69.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87aa634st8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87fwfvsgfv.fsf@wanadoo.es> <877h17scdo.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87hb0b77nr.fsf@lifelogs.com> <8739bvs27m.fsf@wanadoo.es> <83k457p3fg.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1325716525 21104 80.91.229.12 (4 Jan 2012 22:35:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2012 22:35:25 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jan 04 23:35:22 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RiZQW-0002lu-Ki for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 23:35:20 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55068 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RiZQR-0006AT-5J for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 17:35:15 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:46546) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RiZQM-00061k-E6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 17:35:11 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RiZQK-0005ST-04 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 17:35:10 -0500 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:56730) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RiZQJ-0005Rq-LH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 17:35:07 -0500 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RiZQG-0002fD-4j for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 23:35:04 +0100 Original-Received: from 225.red-79-147-11.dynamicip.rima-tde.net ([79.147.11.225]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 23:35:03 +0100 Original-Received: from ofv by 225.red-79-147-11.dynamicip.rima-tde.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 04 Jan 2012 23:35:03 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 61 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 225.red-79-147-11.dynamicip.rima-tde.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.91 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:ksqXBcgsN3CqvWQ3kwC2eNhiUZE= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 80.91.229.12 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:147299 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > You are describing a situation that existed on Windows 9X, it no > longer exists on modern machines. DLLs are either versioned in their > names or use the SxS mechanism. Before putting too much hope into SxS I encourage you to read the wikipedia page about it that you linked on a previous post. > Take the GnuTLS example: the previous DLL of version 2.x was named > libgnutls-26.dll, while the new 3.x one is libgnutls-28.dll. The 3.x version is named -28 ? > Use your friendly depends.exe program, and you will see that programs > that depend on one of them (were linked with its import library) will > refuse to load the other. The same is true of libintl, libiconv, and > all the other libraries many Windows ports of GNU software need. Appending a number to a name doesn't solve the problem. > Poof! the problem doesn't exist. A simple experiment: put a libgnutls-26.dll on the system32 directory. It is shared, right? Now install cygwin or msys, or any of multiple standalone applications which are cygwin-based, and put its binary directory before system32 on PATH. See it? Another experiment: build an application such as Emacs with VC++ 6 or MinGW with the default settings. Now make it to use a dll (GnuTLS, an image library...) compiled with a modern release of VS. Unless such library follows a very strict policy about resource handling (and possibly other aspects) you are asking for problems. I'm sure that I don't need to explain the dangers of mixing different major versions of the C runtime library. Think on a user that discovers that sending mail with Emacs just works because some other package installed GnuTLS on some directory listed on PATH. Time later he decides to uninstall the application and afterwards tries to send an e-mail, just to notice to his dismay that it doesn't work anymore. Confusing, isn't it? And then there is the issue with security fixes... If Emacs enters the bussiness of secure protocols provide a mechanism for notifying the user about updates, and make the upate process a no-brainer. Do you think it is serious to let the user with a broken GnuTLS for years? Either take full responsability or dismiss it completely: "Emacs supports StartTLS through GnuTLS. The library usually can be downloaded . Such library is not part of Emacs and no effort is made related to checking its suitability, correctness, etc." > Please stop spreading this FUD, you are tripping people like Ted who > don't know better into wrong conclusions based on what hurt you (and > me) several years ago. THERE'S NO SUCH PROBLEM ANYMORE! Please stop using inflamatory language and offensive assertions. I could say that your real-world experience distributing, installing and supporting software across heterogenous environments looks quite limited, but I'll rather suppose that you were very lucky so far. [snip]