From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Antoine Levitt Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: BEGIN_SRC..END_SRC Date: Sat, 05 May 2012 17:10:05 +0200 Message-ID: <87pqai64vm.fsf@gmail.com> References: <871umzrvfw.fsf@gmail.com> <87wr4rqg6g.fsf@gmail.com> <83d36j59gv.fsf@gnu.org> <87r4uz58e3.fsf@sec.modprobe.de> <83aa1n57p4.fsf@gnu.org> <5D17181ED92C4552AE8D4404DD035CA0@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1336230631 12932 80.91.229.3 (5 May 2012 15:10:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 15:10:31 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat May 05 17:10:31 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SQgcv-00086y-3X for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 05 May 2012 17:10:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45629 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SQgcu-0001Zg-Cr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 05 May 2012 11:10:28 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:32809) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SQgcr-0001Za-KA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 May 2012 11:10:26 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SQgcp-0006tZ-01 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 May 2012 11:10:25 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:37189) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SQgco-0006tD-Pk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 May 2012 11:10:22 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SQgcm-0007zk-Hr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 05 May 2012 17:10:20 +0200 Original-Received: from ney92-7-78-233-218-202.fbx.proxad.net ([78.233.218.202]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 05 May 2012 17:10:20 +0200 Original-Received: from antoine.levitt by ney92-7-78-233-218-202.fbx.proxad.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 05 May 2012 17:10:20 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Lines: 44 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: ney92-7-78-233-218-202.fbx.proxad.net Mail-Copies-To: never User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:150286 Archived-At: 05/05/12 16:35, Drew Adams >> Thanks, but why isn't this done in general-purpose font-lock of email >> messages? Why limit this to Gnus? > > Bzzzzt - wrong question. The question is NOT why we don't extend or generalize > it to other Emacs email paraphernalia besides Gnus. The question is why we send > this crap at all in plain-text messages? > > That such markup might be useful within Org mode or Gnus or even Emacs generally > is no reason to expose it in plain-text mail. > > We discourage the use of HTML messages in GNU mailing lists. But then > Gnus/Org/Emacs goes and rolls its own simulacrum? And then everyone who is not > using Emacs for mail has the obligatory privilege of seeing the markup? > > If Gnus/Emacs wants to render HTML or XML markup, great. Email clients of many > stripes generally know how to do that, so users do not see the markup itself. > > But whatever Gnus/Emacs decides to do about markup and "looking pretty", please > keep the markup out of plain-text messages. Some mailing list subscribers read > and write mail outside of Emacs (imagine that). And some mailing lists are > mirrored to newsgroups and websites that can also be accessed without Emacs > (imagine that). > > "Font-lock" prettifying doesn't mean a whole lot to the outside world. > > (Note: I would have no problem with the GNU mailing lists NOT discouraging HTML > messages. My point is that we should not (a) discourage HTML and then (b) bring > in some artisanal, Emacs-specific markup through the back door. HTML and XML at > least provide (more or less) standard markup that is supported by many clients.) > > #+END_GNUS The main problem with HTML emails is that they may be rendered completely garbled depending on the viewer. You can't look at a HTML message in plain text and make sense of it (of course, these days, HTML messages usually include a sensible multipart plain text). You're very welcome to completely ignore two lines of the mail. Then again, you're just looking for a fight (again?) I'm not willing to get into, so feel free to ignore this message as well. Presumably it could be implemented by making it a minor mode that is turned on by gnus/org by default and can also be turned on by other modes or by the user?