From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stephen Berman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: thing-at-point's meaning of current sexp vs. up-list's: which is correct? Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 09:49:56 +0200 Message-ID: <87ppvqxxej.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box> References: <51B89807.7000109@lanl.gov> <1371087658.53077.YahooMailClassic@web141105.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1371109812 6169 80.91.229.3 (13 Jun 2013 07:50:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 07:50:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Kelly Dean Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jun 13 09:50:09 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Un2IL-0005xq-2Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 13 Jun 2013 09:50:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58946 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Un2IK-0000cA-LO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 13 Jun 2013 03:50:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35013) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Un2IF-0000Z2-Hy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jun 2013 03:50:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Un2IC-0003cc-Fy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jun 2013 03:50:03 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]:53125) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Un2IC-0003cO-6q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jun 2013 03:50:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net ([10.1.76.32]) by mrigmx.server.lan (mrigmx002) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0Lj7rM-1UDQID0HgU-00dDYo for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2013 09:49:59 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 13 Jun 2013 07:49:58 -0000 Original-Received: from i59F57A13.versanet.de (EHLO rosalinde.fritz.box) [89.245.122.19] by mail.gmx.net (mp032) with SMTP; 13 Jun 2013 09:49:58 +0200 X-Authenticated: #20778731 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+Lotw2PRKLCuMm/BQO6f84CDevBELpYgRr0vxbk6 wQ+wzIgu+stOMH In-Reply-To: <1371087658.53077.YahooMailClassic@web141105.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> (Kelly Dean's message of "Wed, 12 Jun 2013 18:40:58 -0700 (PDT)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 212.227.15.18 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:160402 Archived-At: On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 18:40:58 -0700 (PDT) Kelly Dean wrote: > Davis Herring wrote: >>Point isn't on a character, but between them; the box cursor is drawn on >>the character following point. Therefore when the cursor is on a ), >>point is definitely inside the parentheses. > > I switched to Emacs almost six months ago; I'm surprised I missed something > this basic until now. > The docstring for (point) says "Beginning of buffer is position (point-min)", > so point is at, not between, "positions". > If there's one character in a buffer, then point can be at position 1 or > 2. Which position is the character at? Or are characters not at positions, but > _between_ positions? That seems weird. I always thought both point and > characters were at positions. See (elisp)Positions: A "position" is the index of a character in the text of a buffer. More precisely, a position identifies the place between two characters (or before the first character, or after the last character), so we can speak of the character before or after a given position. However, we often speak of the character "at" a position, meaning the character after that position. Steve Berman