From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@newcastle.ac.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs history, and "Is Emacs difficult to learn?" Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 17:01:45 +0100 Message-ID: <87ppu1cq3a.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> References: <87y58pplcp.fsf@VLAN-3434.student.uu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1375113737 28694 80.91.229.3 (29 Jul 2013 16:02:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 16:02:17 +0000 (UTC) To: Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 29 18:02:18 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1V3ptp-0004uI-45 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 29 Jul 2013 18:02:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36683 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V3pto-0004VC-42 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 29 Jul 2013 12:02:16 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59761) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V3ptX-0004U3-LC for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jul 2013 12:02:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V3ptQ-0003Is-4l for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jul 2013 12:01:59 -0400 Original-Received: from cheviot12.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.234.12]:53507) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V3ptP-0003Gw-SZ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jul 2013 12:01:51 -0400 Original-Received: from smtpauth-vm.ncl.ac.uk ([10.8.233.129]) by cheviot12.ncl.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1V3ptL-0007vY-BJ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jul 2013 17:01:47 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost (cpc14-benw10-2-0-cust274.16-2.cable.virginmedia.com [92.234.125.19]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtpauth-vm.ncl.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r6TG1jkA026677 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2013 17:01:46 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Rustom Mody's message of "Mon, 29 Jul 2013 08:37:29 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 128.240.234.12 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:92513 Archived-At: > Some of the reasons are simply noob-acclimatization issues like tutorial uses > C-f/b/n/p instead of cursor keys, non-use of cua keystrokes etc. > > However some things are from the pov of an old user more crucial: > - poor support for refactoring > - poor support for mainstream languages like java It is a shame that Java support is in the state it is. I used Emacs for many years for coding Java, and wrote of the smaller parts of JDEE. But, it's functionality is quite a bit lacking now compared to things like eclipse. Having said that, I haven't written any Java seriously for quite a few years now. The only reason I use it these days is when I am teaching it, and then I still use Emacs; the amount of effort it takes to set up a new project in Eclipse is a huge problem when you want to write three classes to demonstrate inheritance or whatever and then move on. And, then I need to build the classes into a website, all of which would have to be done outside eclipse. Perhaps this is where Emacs is at it's best. If I were writing in one language, on one project for several months at a time, I'd use eclipse. But I use many languages, with custom tools, for specific purposes. At the bleeding, chaotic edge, it's Emacs every time. Phil