From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: LaTeX (was: Re: Emacs history, and "Is Emacs difficult to learn?") Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2013 10:36:28 +0200 Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Message-ID: <87pptsv8j7.fsf_-_@VLAN-3434.student.uu.se> References: <87a9l4rs76.fsf@VLAN-3434.student.uu.se> <39e6407d-c4fd-4dc1-b47f-a1ba4119c7cb@googlegroups.com> <87iozqzjjq.fsf@VLAN-3434.student.uu.se> <871u6dpjar.fsf@VLAN-3434.student.uu.se> <14bebcfe-2311-4bb3-8154-4cc803962c71@googlegroups.com> <6be5c9a9-ba78-4169-8020-aa9e4c30a759@googlegroups.com> <87fvut16j9.fsf@VLAN-3434.student.uu.se> <87haf72gdy.fsf@VLAN-3434.student.uu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1375692020 10295 80.91.229.3 (5 Aug 2013 08:40:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2013 08:40:20 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 05 10:40:21 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1V6GKy-0003xL-Af for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2013 10:40:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48116 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1V6GKx-0000HB-Vw for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 05 Aug 2013 04:40:20 -0400 X-Received: by 10.180.72.106 with SMTP id c10mr3079769wiv.6.1375691789720; Mon, 05 Aug 2013 01:36:29 -0700 (PDT) X-FeedAbuse: http://nntpfeed.proxad.net/abuse.pl feeded by 88.191.116.97 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!g3no9288803wic.0!news-out.google.com!ed8ni11271wic.0!nntp.google.com!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!nntpfeed.proxad.net!dedibox.gegeweb.org!gegeweb.eu!gegeweb.org!aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 67 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: SWN/nubmpQxYKwY7hPy4YA.user.speranza.aioe.org Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.4 (gnu/linux) X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 Cancel-Lock: sha1:EhSjk2CF7A5XsC4yDKKG4ROq+Kg= Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:200446 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:92714 Archived-At: drain writes: >> But from my experience with LaTeX, you can get just about any >> result that you can find in a book shop or public library, at >> the very least. So there isn't any "I don't even like the >> output" - you can get whatever you like. > > I make my case based on its powerful minimalism. As soon as the > general population see any code, they run away scared. Aha, I thought we were comparing LaTeX and org-mode (and I don't know anything about org-mode) as technologies, not with respect to the general population. Yes, LaTeX isn't the easiest thing to use. Just the fact that you need to compile it (and especially if you have several files, for example references with BibTeX), and that the whole process produces a pack of intermediate representation and/or (?) metadata files in the bargain, could be a regular horror show to some people. Or even more common: something they just wouldn't do. I even used an old-school *makefile* to do the job. But I don't know how common that is (but it wasn't my idea, either). I did lots of LaTeX when I did my bachelor paper (that was some 50 pages). Actually, I learned more from that (the LaTeX), than from what was the academic subject. I thought like this: if I get *one* paper to look *exactly* the way I want it to - with ToC, headers, subheaders, figures, page numbering, and references - I would *never* have to do it again, because then I would just re-use all those settings in the preamble (use the document as a skeleton), and they'd work, and I'd just have to worry about *writing*. So instead of going to the library, and read the whole history, as I would with a GPPL, I used Google, and the SX LaTeX site. The LaTeX people are very helpful, and they understand perfectionism. If you want something lowercased, some paragraph aligned some other way, whatever, just ask, and they will not be dismissive. The SX Unix & Linux site or actually just about any programmers' forum I've ever visited, can't compare with the "good karma" of the LaTeX people. > LaTex may have infinite output possibilities, but doesn't it > still require writing a lot of code in the actual buffer? Yes *and* no - LaTeX requires lots of code to get the paper exactly the way you want it, and especially for advanced documents - but once done, you have it. The coolest thing I did (again, with help from the LaTeX community), is this interactive "Public Library Ad". That's original, don't you think? :) .tex & PDF: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/latex/matte.tex http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/about/matte.pdf > What's nice about org-mode is that the printed output is the > same as the printed input. That sounds like - text mode :) Like I said, if you provide me with an example, that would be very interesting to see! -- Emanuel Berg - programmer (hire me! CV below) computer projects: http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 internet activity: http://home.student.uu.se/embe8573