From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Pascal J. Bourguignon" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: if vs. when vs. and: style question Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 16:22:48 +0100 Organization: Informatimago Message-ID: <87pp7x2jav.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> References: <87sicvwckx.fsf@wmi.amu.edu.pl> <87wq27yvqg.fsf@debian.uxu> <8d531e99-7260-4263-ac99-09c6871e2708@googlegroups.com> <87vbhq53lf.fsf@debian.uxu> <87a8z23p23.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <87lhilx0cf.fsf@debian.uxu> <87twx9360u.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <0d1d19ab-06e9-462d-8867-9a49b1e232d3@googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1427297738 12405 80.91.229.3 (25 Mar 2015 15:35:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 15:35:38 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Mar 25 16:35:32 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YanKz-00089Y-3M for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 25 Mar 2015 16:35:21 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39822 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YanKy-0007SK-86 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 25 Mar 2015 11:35:20 -0400 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 64 Original-X-Trace: individual.net ByQXreOr3eWIOvZDxC60FgK5BNLkVHl7z0xL1jXds7nUryAly+ Cancel-Lock: sha1:MDE5YTEyNTc0YjI0ZjA5NjBiOThmYTNiZDYwNDVmNGY0YTIxOWM4ZA== sha1:NioQTNS0NGFBLSpMDA4IHBDJO/0= Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAQMAAABtzGvEAAAABlBMVEUAAAD///+l2Z/dAAAA oElEQVR4nK3OsRHCMAwF0O8YQufUNIQRGIAja9CxSA55AxZgFO4coMgYrEDDQZWPIlNAjwq9 033pbOBPtbXuB6PKNBn5gZkhGa86Z4x2wE67O+06WxGD/HCOGR0deY3f9Ijwwt7rNGNf6Oac l/GuZTF1wFGKiYYHKSFAkjIo1b6sCYS1sVmFhhhahKQssRjRT90ITWUk6vvK3RsPGs+M1RuR mV+hO/VvFAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Accept-Language: fr, es, en User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:211039 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:103320 Archived-At: Rusi writes: > For 50 years CS has been living in the impoverished world of ASCII. > This makes people think CS and math are more far apart than they essentially/really are. > > I wrote this as my wish for python: > http://blog.languager.org/2014/04/unicoded-python.html > Isn't it about time lisp also considered a similar line? Take a random computer. Type λ. Type lambda. Which one was easier? Type: ∀ ρ∈W • 𝐑ρ □ Type: (for-all (member rho W) (R rho)) Which one was easier? However, check: https://gitlab.com/com-informatimago/emacs/blob/master/pjb-sources.el#L703 With this font-lock, you type (lambda (epsilon) (* 2 epsilon)) and you see: (λ (ε) (* 2 ε)) the buffer and file still contain (lambda (epsilon) (* 2 epsilon)) but it's displayed as greek letters. This can of course be expanded to more unicode symbols. You could type: (for-all (member rho W) (mathematical-bold-capital-r rho)) and you'd see: (∀ (∈ ρ W) (𝐑 ρ)) The next step, is to use a system like HAL/S or the one implemented for scheme -> LaTeX, which reformat formulae in sources using a Mathematic rendering engine such as LaTeX (or ASCII art in the case of HAL/S). The important point is that you keep the source in ASCII, so it's easy to type and to process anywhere. The difficulty is that you have to maintain a (possibly complex) toolchain to have nice renderings. The success of lisp and unix over the decades shows that simplier tools win on the long term. Contrarily to graphic programming languages (such as UML) or other "experiments", or more complex systems, object-based or other (LispMachines), which will eventually break and be forgotten by most and regretted by few). (Everytime I touch UML, there's a whole new toolchain or CASE tool as the tool du jour. Everytime I touch lisp sources, I have my faithful emacs, and what we do today with emacs 24, you could do thirty years ago with emacs 18). Perhaps unicode will take over programming sources, when we'll be able to input your programs by mind reading devices instead of keyboards. But it won't be soon, if you check how bad it is only to dictate program sources (vs. English text). -- __Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/ “The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to keep the man from touching the equipment.” -- Carl Bass CEO Autodesk