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From: "Pascal J. Bourguignon" <pjb@informatimago.com>
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: if vs. when vs. and: style question
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2015 16:22:48 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87pp7x2jav.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 0d1d19ab-06e9-462d-8867-9a49b1e232d3@googlegroups.com

Rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> writes:

> For 50 years CS has been living in the impoverished world of ASCII.
> This makes people think CS and math are more far apart than they essentially/really are.
>
> I wrote this as my wish for python:
> http://blog.languager.org/2014/04/unicoded-python.html
> Isn't it about time lisp also considered a similar line?

Take a random computer.  Type λ.  Type lambda.  Which one was easier?

Type:   ∀ ρ∈W • 𝐑ρ □
Type:   (for-all (member rho W) (R rho))

Which one was easier?

However, check:
https://gitlab.com/com-informatimago/emacs/blob/master/pjb-sources.el#L703

With this font-lock, you type (lambda (epsilon) (* 2 epsilon))
and you see: (λ (ε) (* 2 ε))
the buffer and file still contain (lambda (epsilon) (* 2 epsilon))
but it's displayed as greek letters.
This can of course be expanded to more unicode symbols.


You could type: (for-all (member rho W) (mathematical-bold-capital-r rho))
and you'd see:  (∀ (∈ ρ W) (𝐑 ρ))


The next step, is to use a system like HAL/S or the one implemented for
scheme -> LaTeX, which reformat formulae in sources using a Mathematic
rendering engine such as LaTeX (or ASCII art in the case of HAL/S).

The important point is that you keep the source in ASCII, so it's easy
to type and to process anywhere.

The difficulty is that you have to maintain a (possibly complex)
toolchain to have nice renderings.


The success of lisp and unix over the decades shows that simplier tools
win on the long term.   Contrarily to graphic programming languages (such
as UML) or other "experiments", or more complex systems, object-based or
other (LispMachines), which will eventually break and be forgotten by
most and regretted by few).


(Everytime I touch UML, there's a whole new toolchain or CASE tool as
the tool du jour.  Everytime I touch lisp sources, I have my faithful
emacs, and what we do today with emacs 24, you could do thirty years ago
with emacs 18).


Perhaps unicode will take over programming sources, when we'll be able
to input your programs by mind reading devices instead of keyboards.
But it won't be soon, if you check how bad it is only to dictate
program sources (vs. English text).

-- 
__Pascal Bourguignon__                 http://www.informatimago.com/
“The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a
dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to
keep the man from touching the equipment.” -- Carl Bass CEO Autodesk


  parent reply	other threads:[~2015-03-25 15:22 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 121+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-03-23 22:53 if vs. when vs. and: style question Marcin Borkowski
2015-03-24  0:15 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-24  0:34   ` Drew Adams
2015-03-24  0:22 ` Drew Adams
     [not found] ` <mailman.2648.1427156603.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-24  2:28   ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-24  6:12     ` Rusi
2015-03-25  0:21       ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25  0:20         ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25  2:44           ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25  2:51             ` Rusi
2015-03-25  7:12               ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25 14:02                 ` Rusi
2015-03-25 14:40                   ` Stefan Monnier
2015-03-25 14:52                   ` if vs. when vs. and: style question now Unicode Dan Espen
2015-03-25 15:24                     ` Rusi
2015-03-25 15:46                       ` Dan Espen
2015-03-25 16:02                         ` Rusi
2015-03-25 17:16                           ` Dan Espen
2015-03-28 17:55                           ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25 17:46                         ` Rusi
2015-03-25 15:22                   ` Pascal J. Bourguignon [this message]
2015-03-25 15:37                     ` if vs. when vs. and: style question Rusi
2015-03-29  1:17                       ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25 15:45                     ` Rusi
2015-03-29  1:03                     ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-29  2:41                       ` Rusi
2015-03-29  3:11                         ` Rusi
2015-03-29 14:05                         ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-03-29 16:00                           ` Drew Adams
2015-03-30  1:55                             ` Óscar Fuentes
     [not found]                             ` <mailman.2998.1427680540.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-30  2:25                               ` Rusi
2015-03-29 18:27                         ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-30  0:09                           ` Stefan Monnier
2015-03-30  1:33                             ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-03-30  1:50                               ` Stefan Monnier
2015-03-30  9:44                               ` tomas
2015-03-30 11:46                                 ` Óscar Fuentes
     [not found]                                 ` <mailman.3016.1427716011.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-30 13:03                                   ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-30 14:18                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2015-03-30 15:21                                       ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-03-30 15:31                                         ` Óscar Fuentes
     [not found]                                         ` <mailman.3031.1427729518.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-30 17:15                                           ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
     [not found]                                       ` <mailman.3030.1427728904.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-31  6:26                                         ` Reality and Proofs (was if vs. when vs. and: style question) Rusi
     [not found]                               ` <mailman.3010.1427708687.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-30 12:59                                 ` if vs. when vs. and: style question Pascal J. Bourguignon
     [not found]                         ` <mailman.2972.1427637975.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-30  1:55                           ` Rusi
     [not found]                   ` <mailman.2749.1427294481.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-25 15:33                     ` Rusi
2015-03-25 15:36                       ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25 16:06                         ` Drew Adams
     [not found]                         ` <mailman.2751.1427299594.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-25 16:19                           ` Rusi
2015-03-25 16:23                             ` Rusi
2015-03-29  1:24                             ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25 17:02                           ` Dan Espen
2015-03-25 18:23                             ` Drew Adams
     [not found]                             ` <mailman.2758.1427307846.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-25 18:52                               ` Dan Espen
2015-03-26  9:47                                 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2015-03-29 23:06                                 ` Emanuel Berg
     [not found]                                 ` <mailman.2799.1427363259.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26 10:24                                   ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 10:28                                     ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 10:47                                       ` Unicode in source (Was Re: if vs. when vs. and: style question) Gian Uberto Lauri
     [not found]                                       ` <mailman.2802.1427366873.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26 15:54                                         ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 17:07                                           ` Gian Uberto Lauri
     [not found]                                           ` <mailman.2824.1427389660.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26 17:16                                             ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 10:43                                     ` if vs. when vs. and: style question Gian Uberto Lauri
2015-03-26 13:02                                       ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-04-01 22:03                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2015-04-01 22:24                                     ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25 19:17                               ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25 20:31                                 ` Drew Adams
2015-03-25 22:21                                   ` Richard Wordingham
2015-03-25 23:21                                     ` Drew Adams
2015-03-25 23:52                                       ` Richard Wordingham
     [not found]                                     ` <mailman.2782.1427325697.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26  3:02                                       ` Rusi
2015-03-26 10:01                                         ` Gian Uberto Lauri
     [not found]                                         ` <mailman.2800.1427364117.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26 13:00                                           ` Rusi
2015-03-26 13:28                                             ` Gian Uberto Lauri
     [not found]                                             ` <mailman.2809.1427376497.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26 15:51                                               ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 16:21                                                 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
     [not found]                                   ` <mailman.2779.1427322080.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-04-01  2:31                                     ` Emanuel Berg
2015-04-01  3:03                                       ` Rusi
2015-04-01 14:29                                         ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-04-01 14:57                                           ` Rusi
     [not found]                                 ` <mailman.2771.1427315503.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26  4:23                                   ` Rusi
2015-03-25 19:20                               ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 11:37                                 ` Alan Schmitt
2015-03-30  1:20                                 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-30  2:43                                   ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-30  3:12                                     ` Rusi
2015-03-25 17:49                           ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25 18:09                             ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                             ` <mailman.2756.1427307016.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-25 21:27                               ` Rusi
2015-03-25 21:32                                 ` Rusi
2015-03-31 16:49                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-31 17:22                                     ` Rusi
2015-04-01 18:08                                     ` Emanuel Berg
2015-04-01 20:01                                       ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-27  3:54                           ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-27  7:59                             ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2015-03-27  8:06                               ` tomas
2015-03-27  8:11                                 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2015-03-27  9:20                                   ` tomas
2015-03-27  9:31                                     ` Gian Uberto Lauri
     [not found]                               ` <mailman.2860.1427443603.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-27 12:41                                 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-27 13:05                                   ` tomas
     [not found]                                   ` <mailman.2875.1427461540.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-27 13:35                                     ` Rusi
2015-03-27 12:34                             ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-27  0:49                   ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-27  7:53                     ` Gian Uberto Lauri
     [not found]                     ` <mailman.2856.1427442800.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-27  8:56                       ` Joost Kremers
2015-03-27 12:19                       ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-27 14:20                     ` Rusi
2015-03-25  2:35         ` Rusi
2015-03-27  0:31           ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-27 21:27             ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-27 22:54               ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-28  1:16                 ` Rusi
2015-03-28 12:47                   ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-24 15:18     ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25  0:44       ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-24  7:21 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
     [not found] ` <mailman.2659.1427181547.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-25  0:34   ` Emanuel Berg
     [not found] <mailman.2645.1427151196.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-23 23:19 ` Emanuel Berg

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