From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: member returns list Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 05:12:10 +0200 Message-ID: <87pp1ojppx.fsf@debian.uxu> References: <87bndfauey.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <87wpw0e58f.fsf@robertthorpeconsulting.com> <87si6n822t.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <87oaha9a64.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <87twr1pycd.fsf@debian.uxu> <87zj0s5yc8.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <87r3m45r7a.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1442027059 24383 80.91.229.3 (12 Sep 2015 03:04:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 03:04:19 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 12 05:04:10 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Zab6o-0007q9-1C for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2015 05:04:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59310 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zab6n-0000Ju-CK for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2015 23:04:09 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56734) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zab6d-0000Je-5e for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2015 23:04:00 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zab6Z-0003vD-4n for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2015 23:03:59 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:42980) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zab6Y-0003v3-Uq for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Sep 2015 23:03:55 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Zab6X-0007V5-9K for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2015 05:03:53 +0200 Original-Received: from nl106-137-244.student.uu.se ([130.243.137.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 12 Sep 2015 05:03:53 +0200 Original-Received: from embe8573 by nl106-137-244.student.uu.se with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 12 Sep 2015 05:03:53 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-Lines: 44 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: nl106-137-244.student.uu.se Mail-Copies-To: never User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:Y60gzed8snoW925RjszDVKQ8I3Y= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:107166 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: > FWIW, history usually shows that most inventions > don't depend on one particular person inventing that > thing, but rather on a particular context making > that thing desirable/reachable/useful, at which > point some (set of) people usually invent similar > things around the same time. > > So while the world might look a bit different if > Smalltalk/Lisp/younameit hadn't been invented, it > probably wouldn't be all that different since > someone else would have invented something > similar anyway. There is even a science fiction short story about a guy with a time machine thinking he can go back in time and make a fortune by inventing all sort of things that he knows of from the future, only one day or so before they were actually "invented". And he fails miserably each time, just because he is so out of context and his knowledge is only on-the-surface scholasticism. Just think: everyone knows how a light bulb works, but everyone doesn't feel as confident going back to the 1870 to beat Edison to the punch! Also, this word "invention" is misleading in many cases. Often it is more about construction. They add one bolt here and one screw here. With patience, luck, and skills, in time, someone will stumble in the last correct screw that will make the construction something unique. Just like boiling water, the quantitative difference between say 66 and 67 degrees Celsius won't matter in isolation, but the same change - only from 99 to 100 degrees - will make the water boil - a qualitative difference, in state. Here, we see that 67-66 = 100-99 = 1, but also that, to get from 99 to 100 with water of say ~37 degrees, you must first get up to, and past "66 to 67" before you are even close to "99 to 100"... -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573