From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Pascal J. Bourguignon" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: why are there [v e c t o r s] in Lisp? Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 04:04:35 +0200 Organization: Informatimago Message-ID: <87pp0eckss.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> References: <87mvvjeg29.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> <87eggvebfs.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1445047538 30925 80.91.229.3 (17 Oct 2015 02:05:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 02:05:38 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 17 04:05:35 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnGsH-00021f-Qt for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 04:05:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56632 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnGsH-0007Au-4L for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 22:05:33 -0400 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 59 Original-X-Trace: individual.net m6mJGbhmzGZyaAZvN40TsgcaSFusB4J+mk9VXZBIWYXqzJZJzR Cancel-Lock: sha1:NDFkNmNjMmY3NjJkOGM2NWY3MTI1YWQyYzkwNzcyNzU0NWU0YWUyNQ== sha1:EmolSLwWH1vACtPxkw/mYhI8eKg= Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAQMAAABtzGvEAAAABlBMVEUAAAD///+l2Z/dAAAA oElEQVR4nK3OsRHCMAwF0O8YQufUNIQRGIAja9CxSA55AxZgFO4coMgYrEDDQZWPIlNAjwq9 033pbOBPtbXuB6PKNBn5gZkhGa86Z4x2wE67O+06WxGD/HCOGR0deY3f9Ijwwt7rNGNf6Oac l/GuZTF1wFGKiYYHKSFAkjIo1b6sCYS1sVmFhhhahKQssRjRT90ITWUk6vvK3RsPGs+M1RuR mV+hO/VvFAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Accept-Language: fr, es, en User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:215403 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:107687 Archived-At: Emanuel Berg writes: > Why the syntax is there at all is to provide fast > (faster) access to the vector data type which has > other time and space properties than do lists. ABSOLUTELY NOT. For example, in C++ you have vectors and lists, but you don't have any literal syntax for them. You can have fast and slow data structures without having any literal syntax for it. Why do you keep confusing the two concepts? >> Now, nothing prevents you to travel back to 1960 ... > > Save for physics, I'd go in a heartbeat... Only I'd > put a blind eye to the politics, hallucinogens and > computer infancy are sure appealing enough. Yes. That's an idea I have for a startup that would provide the complete experience for periods lasting years or more, of reconstituted historical periods. If we collect enough information about the sixties, we should be able to reproduce a simulated environment with real-time feeds (radio, TV, newspapers), and of course, a living environment (harder work would be to reconstitute things like food quality, but we should be able to provide a good approximation). There are already companies that can provides newpapers or things like that. For a higher fee, I guess we could even provide a 60's job. For example, we could find a remote COBOL job, and provide it to a programmer with punch card/printer interfaces. >> Notice by the way that in emacs lisp, we lack >> structure types. We can still implement them using >> vectors (or lists), and write program using the >> structure abstraction. If you want to write programs >> using vector or string abstractions without using >> actual vector or string type objects you can do so. > > Yeah, all the math stuff would be just as easy to do > with lists. It is the computer stuff with memory > access O(whatever) that is the difference. Hence the choice of ACL2, since it's purpose is to do the maths more than fast implementation. -- __Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/ “The factory of the future will have only two employees, a man and a dog. The man will be there to feed the dog. The dog will be there to keep the man from touching the equipment.” -- Carl Bass CEO Autodesk