From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Stephen Berman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Display of Lao script Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2017 13:48:36 +0200 Message-ID: <87po9irqej.fsf@gmx.net> References: <874lqyvg78.fsf@gmx.net> <83zi8penic.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1508500170 15345 195.159.176.226 (20 Oct 2017 11:49:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2017 11:49:30 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Kenichi Handa , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 20 13:49:23 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1e5Vnm-0002zm-Ho for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 20 Oct 2017 13:49:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53267 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1e5Vnt-00015l-NG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 20 Oct 2017 07:49:29 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57440) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1e5VnC-00015e-W4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Oct 2017 07:48:48 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1e5VnB-00088s-Sm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Oct 2017 07:48:47 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]:57448) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1e5Vn6-00086h-5J; Fri, 20 Oct 2017 07:48:40 -0400 Original-Received: from rosalinde ([83.135.3.14]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx001 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0Mh9yT-1drzHA0OrR-00MKtK; Fri, 20 Oct 2017 13:48:37 +0200 In-Reply-To: <83zi8penic.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 17 Oct 2017 19:40:27 +0300") X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:IfDk/Tob+9PxWGUDACZBrh00qrUZYu/3Hiyrn3hDn9nv+0WIPmd 1BsX8VCPxR9cBnnIHVo+RB+i/JkO24lk3Gsr8cyq13ROif+7/MgDk+j+jJkAo658PczlvI1 Bsyd8GzsxKR6FDvrjKnjZ7PcL9pVQTCZT6NHDsSTxake4czYmYUanlrx9jS7oxBSns9BY1o WnZZ7ZncqrlPn4t63fjoQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:PRqXPcE9EFA=:Pr3unrH6M3DMnC4WsxTtYl 1+PqR7b8TZXx3JLVPCKOWwdtHAtPLLNGZa4Dx12fSSawCOyY5yjsz6cPZY6BReBeTwRAcfI4H sS996fT6t5JmkoLnee4lg2sYh7KXxuIf72eaMZ36SgmDQDJEMXdILQ5L2gkTCXQufTpJhRaDE /3bLWR6L5msrY6aNslQ8EUyiVq4gKLDT6oNIgxot9VIq3AhhI6vPON3y7ua93q0OvjH/vaG05 6UKw4XAcqSrvLXOaMxu8kUuCzm8MXhvf0wMigwbYMYHHQnEFeJICa5sK6ml+QvqF9MpngOvxV 7Mkiz91RdV/7/wu0qE/9Wj/q9VyNyBfHhavdWk7EjzEHJEwdtU9jckSOY/R2QXA9AiVXF4P39 q+3DxcSQ286HT6JtRlEZr9gaBu+STYFWT5BnbAaU11DljEXRFF2T/4xwBXH8qqzS2YzlYq0/k wgPpY0wggIlOYoKdewlCAOvmySgiXQSesFXNdPvziEgasfRmI0i8s2fQSwoiqAPL0zuuPT8Pr Lr98ygKg7YX6ii6ptzCBzhPOlpjhzz0Hq21ecrhz9r256Bqk1uhqaYhV+1k5VuvuBSEnsdImQ aBwUvULoRBIVDbaIwA2AjdqD6yvM8gtLuGBL0wvzwAgCrIDoFUh/cHndbuzdjwC9T/RwVVl2s D6efHZg0vqfHPKN1UV9RvApgltDNbH7aeBD2cEBxWmEHX0CTHiZehYF7N24EY0MhHmb8O34GF wH7aFL0eEEHdYKvvWPRQTO9SW/fsPC2b3duUSkDd52J8sUMfGB3DE2YJcOYyW/TJTBdsfyYW X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 212.227.15.18 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:219637 Archived-At: On Tue, 17 Oct 2017 19:40:27 +0300 Eli Zaretskii wrote: > [Adding Handa-san, in the hope that he could comment on this.] > >> From: Stephen Berman >> Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2017 01:14:03 +0200 >> >> Is this difference expected? I'm not familiar with the Lao script, so I >> don't know if one of the displays is wrong, though this quote from >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lao_alphabet seems to suggest that either >> way is possible: "Vowels can be written above, below, in front of, or >> behind consonants, with some vowel combinations written before, over and >> after." This is m17n-lib-1.7.0 and libotf-0.9.13 from >> http://www.nongnu.org/m17n/, which are AFAIK the latest released >> versions (there's a patch for Bengali in etc/PROBLEMS, but I don't know >> of any problem report about Lao). (Regardless if what's correct, my >> aesthetic impression is that the first display, without m17n and libotf, >> looks better; however, I do know that the Arabic example in HELLO is >> correctly displayed only with these libraries). > > I see a better display here, on MS-Windows. Can you try a different > font, perhaps one that is advertised to have good support for the Lao > script? AFAIK, libotf/libm17n (as any other shaping engine) depend on > font capabilities to some extent. I haven't yet tried a font specialized for Lao, but I did try Symbola, and with that the Lao HELLO example appears as it does in Emacs without m17n-lib and libotf (with one exeption, see below) -- though the font used to display the Lao is not Symbola but DejaVu Sans. Then I realized what the difference is: Symbola is a variable pitch font, while my default font is DejaVu Sans Mono (also the default with -Q). And indeed, using DejaVu Sans (not Mono) as the default font displays the Lao as in Emacs without m17n-lib and libotf (but in the latter Emacs it's the same display also with DejaVu Sans Mono) -- with the exception of the character LAO LETTER HO SUNG, which is composed with LAO TONE MAI THO, but in the display, the latter appears over the following character, while in the Emacs without m17n-lib and libotf it appears over the character it is composed with (which I assume is correct). The other three character compositions in the Lao example appear the same in Emacs both without and with m17n-lib and libotf -- but again, in the latter only with variable pitch DejaVu Sans. So this does seem to be a problem in the m17n-lib and/or libotf code. Steve Berman