From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: hw Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Some developement questions Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2018 17:35:12 +0200 Organization: my virtual residence Message-ID: <87pnxtqnrj.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <87sh36inql.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <877ekigiiw.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <837ekhb2me.fsf@gnu.org> <87zhxcbmtr.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83in409lub.fsf@gnu.org> <871sanb71j.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <87k1oeaofu.fsf@ada> <20180825103413.gbm5stsl67j6weow@Ergus> <87k1od7vzf.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83wosd5h3x.fsf@gnu.org> <871sakzssu.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83bm9n6f7d.fsf@gnu.org> <87tvneql3i.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83o9dl2oob.fsf@gnu.org> <87y3coopyf.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <5261e02f-fd51-7e8d-fb6b-ad013ce2e748@lanl.gov> <87y3cnl7bt.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <37172f35-6b2d-73f0-32db-37551429071d@orcon.net.nz> <87muszgb8j.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <874lf7mtts.fsf@mail.linkov.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1536079092 11140 195.159.176.226 (4 Sep 2018 16:38:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 16:38:12 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) Cc: spacibba@aol.com, radon.neon@gmail.com, Phil Sainty , Emacs development discussions , Eli Zaretskii , flexibeast@gmail.com To: Juri Linkov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 04 18:38:08 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fxEL7-0002in-Ly for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2018 18:38:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51762 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fxENE-0004Nu-3v for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2018 12:40:16 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41639) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fxEJM-0007Dr-Ml for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2018 12:36:18 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fxEJC-0003Lx-5i for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2018 12:36:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mo6-p01-ob.smtp.rzone.de ([2a01:238:20a:202:5301::10]:17883) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fxEJ9-0003KG-Vp; Tue, 04 Sep 2018 12:36:04 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1536078963; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=adminart.net; h=References:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=PdJa2QFa8P0np5rSGnzNpe5gQYTHtZSW4/1rMSunRSg=; b=iAyIzDYbj2Go64/A4NQRQwfeQRpQIdstrAOLmqrqwtsTdKlPBCbIliAMrADY0XLqRe n2qCPj+0uuEaNp9Oe8bva9SxW8nnOo3kFEcaXZLKd5wFP3+6R6iTzu6RNQCSHbjN+3Cx tSD55pa7zps124ZVXUMT8T76h4IMBayPmVAn3tjURQaRkfsdFflkaucULB91pfZiKZvZ 6fPXvMxNv5zHdIpyBz7Ut7lQR0xmhL4AqTm2AW8D0oxWJfiU5PmPET0v/+Z6zoZoqoXS ysydzDG+8wAXXHZ7jzDawRJUjQfWwufOWIE4JS46lqbnAiLq7aj8j++Aqli2g6HFSLNL ENrQ== X-RZG-AUTH: ":O2kGeEG7b/pS1FS4THaxjVF9w0vVgfQ9xGcjwO5WMRo5c+h5ceMqQWZ3yrBp+AVdIIwXjneEe9k=" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Original-Received: from himinbjorg.adminart.net by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.0 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id e03b99u84GZj1VQ (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Tue, 4 Sep 2018 18:35:45 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from toy.adminart.net ([192.168.3.55]) by himinbjorg.adminart.net with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1fxEIr-00026e-Ce; Tue, 04 Sep 2018 18:35:45 +0200 In-Reply-To: <874lf7mtts.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Mon, 03 Sep 2018 01:01:19 +0300") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2a01:238:20a:202:5301::10 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229243 Archived-At: Juri Linkov writes: >>> It's important to understand that changes which would make life easier >>> for you may well be making life harder for existing users. Changing >>> established key bindings (which have been in muscle memory of many >>> users for literal decades) is a big deal. >> >> Yes, I'm not suggesting to remove existing key bindings for this, only >> to add Alt+left and Alt+right to go back and forth in info buffers. > > It's so unfortunate that due to historical reasons we can't provide > intuitive and convenient keys for Info navigation and . Why can't that be done? Who would use word-wise movement while reading info documents? It's not like users of Emacs do not use web browsers. > Long time ago I configured to use Mozilla-like navigation where > goes back in history, but goes forward in history unless > point is on a link in which case it visits the link. And like in > Lynx-like navigation, and move point to the next/prev > link, and when there are no visible links on the page, scroll to next/prev > page. sounds good > Maybe as some packages like windmove allow customization of modifiers > for their keys, Info navigation keys could be provided with a > different modifier like and ? What would be the point of adding another key binding nobody knows about? It could be used for word-wise movement perhaps. >> Users may prefer reading documentation in a web browser for at least two >> reasons: Navigation is easier, and the browser can have Tabs. This is >> kinda only one reason, but can Emacs have Tabs? >> >> If Emacs can have Tabs and show its documentation with all the ease a >> web browser can, life would be much easier for many users. > > Do you mean frame-local or window-local tabs? Frame-local tabs are now > easier to implement since we have side windows, but I'm still not sure how > a side window can be created above an individual window to contain its > window-local tabbar? I mean tabs like in a web browser :) Unfortunately, web browers do not have windows. That doesn't mean that Emacs could not have web-browser-like frames which do not allow windows --- and info documentation and manual pages could be displayed in them.