From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: hw Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Some developement questions Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 21:48:06 +0200 Organization: my virtual residence Message-ID: <87pnxl16dl.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <8336v6cvem.fsf@gnu.org> <87zhxcbmtr.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83in409lub.fsf@gnu.org> <871sanb71j.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83y3cu7t9j.fsf@gnu.org> <87lg8t2ki9.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <20180827015422.lcq44zvsjffeau4j@Ergus> <83a7p76f5e.fsf@gnu.org> <87lg8p9o6y.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83pnxx1foj.fsf@gnu.org> <87bm9d9zs9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87efe75v02.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <87sh2lu471.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <87r2i4p2f8.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <87h8ix7gy3.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <835zzdpltc.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1536613618 22467 195.159.176.226 (10 Sep 2018 21:06:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 21:06:58 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) Cc: spacibba@aol.com, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 10 23:06:53 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fzTOX-0005l1-R4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 23:06:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54008 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzTQe-00025O-89 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 17:09:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:39617) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzTNy-0007yE-0Q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 17:06:18 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzTCN-0001SV-0H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 16:54:19 -0400 Original-Received: from mo6-p01-ob.smtp.rzone.de ([2a01:238:20a:202:5301::3]:16862) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fzTCL-0001Rw-TL; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 16:54:18 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1536612856; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=adminart.net; h=References:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=I+b/QQntUBWJtg//WPZAZ5kf7BeHuyJmzZi5co2tXb0=; b=qIJRCKlVrS49YOLkroZvc9ThMMU5mNdNYz0lk/iPnTxIsd1Mral4PxHmrWsaV8a2qo LHE0iS730k/yrh+ZMCZzZA3LUFdZ0kEKsUYuZB5yW0dfZFS4U4tKCWTA2EesJw7sVVu0 G4slusHswLNFN0lRvmLIOUT6tj3hujcD405ssZLEO5E1F4EWw24dvFkkekX/whEtQSIL lFs8d40fYhLonPJ67kH8MBO3iiA+AcXtFmeCzRvW/9tfwXVjhNrtqJs08gizq6ezYFSu irCsSXXu4kWWcgUYCT83nPnP33thSk7U1azDmrzwHIbt9sHsATfNpkdoxYeV6OR2GSB3 U37A== X-RZG-AUTH: ":O2kGeEG7b/pS1FS4THaxjVF9w0vVgfQ9xGcjwO5WMRo5c+h5ceMqQWZ3yrBp+AVdIIwXjneEe9k=" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Original-Received: from himinbjorg.adminart.net by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.0 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id e03b99u8AKsEJsW (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Mon, 10 Sep 2018 22:54:14 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from toy.adminart.net ([192.168.3.55]) by himinbjorg.adminart.net with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1fzTCH-0001C7-Gg; Mon, 10 Sep 2018 22:54:13 +0200 In-Reply-To: <835zzdpltc.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 10 Sep 2018 15:40:47 +0300") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2a01:238:20a:202:5301::3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229655 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: hw >> Cc: eliz@gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk, spacibba@aol.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 13:59:48 +0200 >> >> Richard Stallman writes: >> >> So how are Emacs` key bindings for cursor movement more efficient than >> the cursor keys, given that the Alt key does not work? > > The Alt key does work, you probably have your keyboard misconfigured. I found out less than a week ago that it now finally works. It did not work for the first 25 years or so, beginning on an Atari ST. Technically, it may have started working earlier and I didn't know because hadn't tried it for a long time because it hasn't been working for decades. I don't know why it works now; chances to find out are low. My keyboard is probably not misconfigured. Everything works as intended. I've had keyboards misconfigured, it usually shows when you can not switch from X to a console, and I fixed that when it happend. I have a couple keyboards here, and each requires its own specific configuration. I think someone fixed a bug some time, somewhere, and it works since then. >> Eli pointed out that window managers like to use the Alt key for >> themselves so that it never arrives at Emacs. > > Not Alt itself, some combinations that begin with Alt. Like Alt-TAB, > for example. There are very few such combinations, and Emacs avoids > binding important functions to them. So I think explaining that in > the tutorial would not be TRT, as the issue is quite obscure. I don't know, isn't that hard to say? If a WM (or something else) were to use Alt+v for something, it might not work, or work intermittently, in Emacs. If this possibility was mentioned in the tutorial, users could at least check. A small paragraph about it in the tutorial hurts less than having the Alt key not working for 25 years. In the case I've had a problem with it, it would still sometimes work and sometimes not, apparently depending on whether the WM or the program came first in reading input.