From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Auto-installing packages? Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 17:58:20 +0100 Message-ID: <87pnx8yukz.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <8736u8s5q8.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87sh264w88.fsf@russet.org.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1537462676 6242 195.159.176.226 (20 Sep 2018 16:57:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 16:57:56 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA, raman@google.com To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 20 18:57:52 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1g32H0-0001VI-Ln for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 18:57:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52127 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g32J6-0001Pn-SX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 13:00:00 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58272) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g32IR-0001Pf-8e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 12:59:23 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g32IM-0001sh-Op for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 12:59:17 -0400 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([78.129.138.110]:53599) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g32IE-0000yy-Lj; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 12:59:06 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=/w8VwtpzU8RjDtQUNVHWhYEe7zTi6WEogyrfJc9wSGc=; b=ZMLUOtqinE3BEIZ5k/fOuML0U xXDGN55FXTAJySVZVKDCLyhGWCAH9MQqdazoOvxU4L6RGcFRmbrZN4TQ8w2TV1BVNkAdcgSDWoWI6 x06Jox2WyHU0Su0I8f4ZNHuS9MPzCydBCj4T6vw8gJ68/eMui/lKvv0x46jZCxEi9Z2hOivbm4E1e oIioK8xbO0utvim4nTDE+aK9a6B4Mb1di/aTnjLNJEgIhpbMRcyt1w72n8mEKqV8sBtI1keQ2zRZu ZzbRkbahQZYg+/Bc8NuWhKulQSOFeFDcoDyRuEYLqG+gZMEnSNBjcQNEFRHwuEShPmLy+ndAA5QE4 +tnGJ1Dng==; Original-Received: from janus-nat-128-240-225-124.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.225.124]:45688 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1g32HV-009ZXo-FC; Thu, 20 Sep 2018 16:58:21 +0000 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Tue, 18 Sep 2018 23:40:28 -0400") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 78.129.138.110 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229978 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > > > That is a valid point, in the case of GNU ELPA. > > > > > > But would that facility be limited to GNU ELPA? > > > > Or would it also be used with other package archives > > > that are not part of Emacs? > > You responded > > > Emacs already has the ability to do this, but it is up to the user to > > choose to do this. > > That doesn't address the issue I am raising. It is a tangent. > > Emacs has the ability to do any computation at all, if a user programs > it. The issue here is not what Emacs "has the ability to do", but > what it offers/encourages/suggests/makes convenient. > > If we are going to add a convenient facility to load external > packages, it should be for ELPA (which is more or less a part of > Emacs), not for other package archives (which are NOT part of Emacs). > > In general, treating all package archives alike is something to avoid. > It is a pitfall. I don't think it's a tangent. Emacs out of the box already favours ELPA, and does not enable other archives. The default for additional mechanism for loading external packages would be at least as restrictive -- i.e. out of the box, Emacs would only use this additional mechanism for ELPA. I would assume that anything else we added would also be usable with other package archives. So, the GNU distribution of Emacs might, for example, not ship with org-mode, but auto-install and then autoload it on first usage. The same facility could be used by, for example, spacemacs to auto-install and then auto-load any of the packages that spacemacs provides. It would be possible to make the use of an auto-install functionality work straight-forwardly only with ELPA, but I can't see why you would. Phil