From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Vladimir Sedach Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proper namespaces in Elisp Date: Mon, 04 May 2020 18:24:52 -0700 Message-ID: <87pnbj18d7.fsf@t510.orion.oneofus.la> References: <237fe643-c14d-5406-b35d-a30dcd42c5ed@gmail.com> <87v9lb1irk.fsf@t510.orion.oneofus.la> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="102586"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.3.10; emacs 26.2 Cc: nic@ferrier.me.uk, =?utf-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment?= Pit-Claudel , emacs-devel To: =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue May 05 03:37:58 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jVmX0-000Qa1-FR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 05 May 2020 03:37:58 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51006 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jVmWz-00081X-CG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 04 May 2020 21:37:57 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57510) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jVmWB-0007aZ-Qo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 May 2020 21:37:07 -0400 Original-Received: from forward103p.mail.yandex.net ([2a02:6b8:0:1472:2741:0:8b7:106]:35824) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jVmW5-0002ZC-Pc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 May 2020 21:37:05 -0400 Original-Received: from mxback25g.mail.yandex.net (mxback25g.mail.yandex.net [IPv6:2a02:6b8:0:1472:2741:0:8b7:326]) by forward103p.mail.yandex.net (Yandex) with ESMTP id 764D118C0F25; Tue, 5 May 2020 04:36:57 +0300 (MSK) Original-Received: from myt4-ee976ce519ac.qloud-c.yandex.net (myt4-ee976ce519ac.qloud-c.yandex.net [2a02:6b8:c00:1da4:0:640:ee97:6ce5]) by mxback25g.mail.yandex.net (mxback/Yandex) with ESMTP id v4Q2sImTRZ-avJ8Yt6j; Tue, 05 May 2020 04:36:57 +0300 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oneofus.la; s=mail; t=1588642617; bh=LjE8ohP5rjruDbjVjmThvL+qh4p0xWVB+seWsQ4WOvI=; h=In-reply-to:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date:References:Message-ID; b=0vfAztXGiVHt8N+JP0lWlbG+5uCDer805RkqHkJo79GYxCmi+EARXBmP0OUOfqUwP h0r30fPatBdFXxWm22u5hG3CIxIOFd5hS+YynYOdYcvvRNIvut0g5rrlTpZc4FL111 8rAQNhec5SIythwRhhuVnHtbpOS6+XdKGlg+Rt9o= Authentication-Results: mxback25g.mail.yandex.net; dkim=pass header.i=@oneofus.la Original-Received: by myt4-ee976ce519ac.qloud-c.yandex.net (smtp/Yandex) with ESMTPSA id QtZiGgS1vm-ateKM8uU; Tue, 05 May 2020 04:36:56 +0300 (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client certificate not present) In-reply-to: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a02:6b8:0:1472:2741:0:8b7:106; envelope-from=vas@oneofus.la; helo=forward103p.mail.yandex.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/04 21:36:57 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:248923 Archived-At: Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora writes: >> Common Lisp does not do a good job of this, because whether or not a >> symbol's package prefix is printed depends on the current package you >> are in when printing. > > How is that a flaw? You just pointed it out: > If you want to always print/read consistently, print everything > from a package that doesn't use any other package, even :CL > SLIME/SLY do that. To get reading of printed s-expressions to work reliably in Common Lisp requires a lot of coordination (not just packages). Any Elisp namespace system should not add extra burden to reading of printed s-expressions. This is very on-topic, and also a good argument to avoid "magic comments" and per-file settings. For example, if file A is read/loaded, then file B is read/loaded, the effect should be the same as reading/loading the concatenation of A and B. It is not clear if this would be the case with Nic's proposal. -- Vladimir Sedach Software engineering services in Los Angeles https://oneofus.la