From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Ricardo Wurmus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: "Why is emacs so square?" 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:252282 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Joost Kremers >> Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 08:36:49 +0200 [=E2=80=A6] >> The=20 >> point is, I need to know Org syntax anyway to do each single thing=20 >> separately. Integrating them doesn't require a deeper level of=20 >> knowledge than I already have. > > Unless I misunderstand what you mean by "Org syntax", I don't think > users who want to create documents with Org should be required to know > that syntax. Instead, there should be commands to help them produce > correctly formatted snippets. Compare that with Texinfo commands > which produce the various syntactic elements of the language. I would like to not have to bother with Org syntax at all, but after using the commands that produce it I see that syntax. It can be very confusing to see an unfamiliar syntax after issuing a command =E2=80=94 what parts of it may I edit? When I accidentally remove parts of it, how can I restore the full syntax? Two things would help here, in my opinion: * hide the textual representation. My Org mode configuration replaces =E2=80=9C*=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9C**=E2=80= =9D, =E2=80=9C***=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9C****=E2=80=9D with =E2=80=9Cbullets=E2=80=9D like "=E2=97=89", "=E2=97=8B", "=E2=97=87", and= "=E2=97=87". I can produce them either by tying =E2=80=9C*=E2=80=9D (if I know that syntax) or by using M-RET and S= -right. Org mode hides the syntax for URLs when [[=E2=80=A6][=E2=80=A6]] is used and = displays just an underlined and clickable URL. For source code blocks I replace =E2=80=9C#+begin_src=E2=80=9D and =E2=80= =9C#+end_src=E2=80=9D with markers like =E2=9C=8E and =E2=96=A1 and set the block visually apart by = customizing the faces. (See https://pank.eu/blog/pretty-babel-src-blocks.html) * delete the whole construct instead of deleting characters. Currently, it is easy to end up with invalid syntax by deleting parts of the markup text. Deleting the trailing =E2=80=9Cc=E2=80=9D of =E2=80=9C#+end= _src=E2=80=9D at the end of a source code block, for example, breaks that code block but leaves the =E2=80=9C#+begin_src=E2=80=9D and now incomplete =E2=80=9C#+end_sr=E2=80= =9D where they are. I need to know that I have to append a =E2=80=9Cc=E2=80=9D at the end to restore th= e code block. There is no command I can run to =E2=80=9Crepair=E2=80=9D this co= de block. Maybe it would be good to remove the whole textual markup at once, leaving only the user-provided text that was marked up. By making it impossible or very unlikely to produce incorrect markup and by hiding the markup syntax itself the user wouldn=E2=80=99t have to learn = it and also wouldn=E2=80=99t be exposed to it accidentally. At that point the syntax itself becomes secondary; this would then be similar to how enriched-mode works. --=20 Ricardo