From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Better way to require with shorthands/renamed symbols Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2021 14:09:39 +0100 Message-ID: <87pmsuqi5o.fsf@gmail.com> References: <20210927003203.15806.29864@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <20210927003205.EF26620A5E@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <8735pqryt2.fsf@gmail.com> <0b213c21-aacb-fe9b-11c8-0c4e777fe14d@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="19494"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Adam Porter , Stefan Kangas , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 27 15:28:54 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mUqgf-0004nv-9W for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:28:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38616 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUqgd-0003I7-Uh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2021 09:28:52 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42598) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUqO7-0000E3-56 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2021 09:09:43 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr1-x431.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::431]:34550) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mUqO5-0005YL-IR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Sep 2021 09:09:42 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr1-x431.google.com with SMTP id t8so51977822wri.1 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 2021 06:09:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Hpels/ADpjBcibG6Mf6BE/UszDLaQ2DITpYW7kKc4nU=; b=g75rtjXlxN9SVh0kY1rhBHHXygmoXIPxOlZw66znESyu1SvLsrSZAI6xvTwZGVvhJ+ 1M+AfQUsoKF5nSNtFMKGpbPPbMWcn6mrn2gSwUlLMwmTHu2ZmPzF/nuqRPYdARWHWjPA 9x1aV9U0AQzD3r/TGYeJ5HIEzPQqoenwM+DSBeVnyxuWlmaU5rguHUxMeu9LWsn0AocX HXThrqHTYjskEp1H808Zwc1Uq7xW2npNqBrcM2mSN212ZpATglIa77uDB0WWXibcS/rB C9xJttO7nBI9zGtbOzZ13ahODuRZLawDKgbF0U0J3aMSea0N9XASW01F5YsW7zXEjMWg 9rxQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Hpels/ADpjBcibG6Mf6BE/UszDLaQ2DITpYW7kKc4nU=; b=jsc7vPb8qJpiJfLTmg2xUdRqiJnKExE+mE1ADqEW9FjHRO+vfgCv5G09XH5tNcKfes nVGzEv0aoF4w5QClAUx/Bu6oZ0KCUKrQbI1uJoqXEeTx7+D0y3qE+5YHZo0sFCftWp3c qrO8YLemRav4AoMKJQnEMttuQmAjQAsw5mcnkgpM4xarFzxZN2TqDBPcmhqBbiYcnVuu 1Ab96QhikkfRIDBRF6hIXwB1xehJSoYvaasi0MakpzSjqe+nzDf8om35s8lK+BQG9ql5 4kQnqwX6NQZKRJb4zB0uEqMTtKeGQiMJ/guHMrvi0ScfgGN170UTy6pKYdBtohDBzLn+ TgaQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531sBBpNaQRxU9nUXfOjGJKUZMhrXEWeq5tHxZs1BufWpcFQrvVp 3JRyvWik8upX/5VgZj/6A57Cj1PLTLw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyT/trakmcUuUxZ8BQ0LGH/BFm1vpKQWfGOoZBef7mCHYIjforZOpV4OPEiy1DovuU/tPeUQQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:144d:: with SMTP id v13mr27161935wrx.303.1632748179814; Mon, 27 Sep 2021 06:09:39 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from krug ([62.48.174.238]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 1sm7371013wms.0.2021.09.27.06.09.38 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 27 Sep 2021 06:09:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <0b213c21-aacb-fe9b-11c8-0c4e777fe14d@yandex.ru> (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Mon, 27 Sep 2021 15:55:51 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::431; envelope-from=joaotavora@gmail.com; helo=mail-wr1-x431.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:275585 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov writes: > On 27.09.2021 15:24, Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora wrote: > >> One should understand (or perhaps, as a programmer, one _must_ >> understand) that the Shorthands feature works at the Lisp reader level. >> It's tricky to think about the execution of that manifestation of >> the >> 'require' special and what it does at the Shorthands level. You're >> probably thinking of putting it on the top of your file, which is the >> most common case, but far from the only use. What if it happens at >> non-top level, in an IF form? What if it happen sat top level but in >> the middle of the file? It would amount to setting variables that >> influence the reader during the read process. > > I think the key part is for this info to reside somewhere near the top > of the file (if not in the require form, then above it, maybe). OK. I agree that that is much better from a usability point of view. And the key part of my position is that currently, we shouldn't try to make it a part of Lisp code. Maybe we can somehoe have file-local variables in other points of the file? Would that suffice for you and Stefan now? Jo=C3=A3o