[BUG] list.orgmode.org managed to parse a message in future: 2023-10-29 [9.6.1 (release_9.6.1-223-gc8d20d @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[BUG] list.orgmode.org managed to parse a message in future: 2023-10-29 [9.6.1 (release_9.6.1-223-gc8d20d @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Ihor Radchenko]

Hi,

We currently have a message in future on top of
https://list.orgmode.org/

The message is
https://list.orgmode.org/ZT2vNKsf3Lp5xit3@protected.localdomain/raw, and
it does not contain the future dates in headers. Just in the body.

Are we observing public inbox bug?

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: [BUG] list.orgmode.org managed to parse a message in future: 2023-10-29 [9.6.1 (release_9.6.1-223-gc8d20d @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Jean Louis]

* Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> [2023-02-03 14:13]:
> Hi,
> 
> We currently have a message in future on top of
> https://list.orgmode.org/
> 
> The message is
> https://list.orgmode.org/ZT2vNKsf3Lp5xit3@protected.localdomain/raw, and
> it does not contain the future dates in headers. Just in the body.
> 
> Are we observing public inbox bug?

Sorry for that. It was not intentional. It happened during the
exercises.

I went to future, and wrote from there. ☺️ 

Now it is pending until the future time stamp.

Similarly, I have made mess with Dino XMPP messenger as well, I have
sent message from future, now that message will appear to me for years
as the last message sent, no matter what I do, that message remains
pending!

Why did mailing list accept message from far future? It should not be
so, that is bug to be reported.

Dino messenger accepted message from far future, that is bug, and I
have reported it: 
https://github.com/dino/dino/issues/1355


-- 
Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/

Re: [BUG] list.orgmode.org managed to parse a message in future: 2023-10-29 [9.6.1 (release_9.6.1-223-gc8d20d @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Max Nikulin]

On 03/02/2023 17:55, Ihor Radchenko wrote:
> 
> We currently have a message in future on top of
> https://list.orgmode.org/

At the epoch of livejournal some users intentionally assign some date in 
the the future to pin posts at the top of their blogs.

> The message is
> https://list.orgmode.org/ZT2vNKsf3Lp5xit3@protected.localdomain/raw, and
> it does not contain the future dates in headers. Just in the body.

See the "Date" header
> Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 04:02:44 +0300
> Are we observing public inbox bug?

Earlier I have seen spam messages from the future. I think, it just was 
easier to take time from the Date header. Parsing of "Received" headers 
is more complicated and it is necessary to configure which one can be 
trusted. Sender may add some fake "Received" headers as well. Moreover 
it is necessary to ensure that time is correct on the trusted server. 
(It must be done anyway, incorrect time may lead to failure of TLS 
handshake before message transfer.)

I am not convinced that mail list must drop messages with future date.

Public inbox may have some feature like override map Message-ID -> 
correct date or parsing "Received" headers. The latter may increase 
server load during mail processing.

future value for Date header can pin thread to top of $inbox/ list.orgmode.org managed to parse a message in future: 2023-10-29 [9.6.1 (release_9.6.1-223-gc8d20d @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Kyle Meyer]

Ihor Radchenko writes:

> We currently have a message in future on top of
> https://list.orgmode.org/

Hmm, that's unfortunate.

> The message is
> https://list.orgmode.org/ZT2vNKsf3Lp5xit3@protected.localdomain/raw, and
> it does not contain the future dates in headers. Just in the body.

Look again at its date header:

  $ curl -fSsL https://list.orgmode.org/ZT2vNKsf3Lp5xit3@protected.localdomain/raw | \
    grep Date:
  Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 04:02:44 +0300

> Are we observing public inbox bug?

I'm not sure what's intended here.  There are spots in public-inbox that
favor a date from Received headers.  I've sent a message to
public-inbox's list:

  https://public-inbox.org/meta/87edr5gx63.fsf@kyleam.com

Re: [BUG] list.orgmode.org managed to parse a message in future: 2023-10-29 [9.6.1 (release_9.6.1-223-gc8d20d @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Kyle Meyer]

Oy, sorry about mangling the subject :x

I started to change it to cc <meta@public-inbox.org> but then decided to
start send a separate message, but forgot about the in-between subject
change.

Re: [BUG] list.orgmode.org managed to parse a message in future: 2023-10-29 [9.6.1 (release_9.6.1-223-gc8d20d @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Kyle Meyer]

Kyle Meyer writes:

> I'm not sure what's intended here.  There are spots in public-inbox that
> favor a date from Received headers.  I've sent a message to
> public-inbox's list:
>
>   https://public-inbox.org/meta/87edr5gx63.fsf@kyleam.com

Eric replied with a patch that resolved the issue.  I've installed it.

Re: [BUG] list.orgmode.org managed to parse a message in future: 2023-10-29 [9.6.1 (release_9.6.1-223-gc8d20d @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Ihor Radchenko]

Kyle Meyer <kyle@kyleam.com> writes:

> Eric replied with a patch that resolved the issue.  I've installed it.

Thanks!
I think I saw the "future" thread disappearing briefly, but it is again
there on top of https://list.orgmode.org/.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: [BUG] list.orgmode.org managed to parse a message in future: 2023-10-29 [9.6.1 (release_9.6.1-223-gc8d20d @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Greg Minshall]

Jean Louis,

> Why did mailing list accept message from far future? It should not be
> so, that is bug to be reported.

there's an old internet adage to help achieve interoperability
(attributed to the late Jon Postel): be liberal in what you accept, and
conservative in what you send.

so, i wouldn't blame mail services for accepting mail with odd dates.
but, i would question MUAs (like mh-e, mutt, etc., i guess) that allow
one to send e-mail with odd dates.  (i mean, i guess if the person
stands on their head and swears up and down that they mean to do it,
... :)

cheers, Greg

Re: [BUG] list.orgmode.org managed to parse a message in future: 2023-10-29 [9.6.1 (release_9.6.1-223-gc8d20d @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Ihor Radchenko]

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> writes:

> Kyle Meyer <kyle@kyleam.com> writes:
>
>> Eric replied with a patch that resolved the issue.  I've installed it.
>
> Thanks!
> I think I saw the "future" thread disappearing briefly, but it is again
> there on top of https://list.orgmode.org/.

I no longer see the problem and, as per discussion in public inbox ML,
we will leave future date displayed below thread link as is.

Fixed.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>

Re: [BUG] list.orgmode.org managed to parse a message in future: 2023-10-29 [9.6.1 (release_9.6.1-223-gc8d20d @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Jean Louis]

* Greg Minshall <minshall@umich.edu> [2023-02-05 21:43]:
> so, i wouldn't blame mail services for accepting mail with odd dates.
> but, i would question MUAs (like mh-e, mutt, etc., i guess) that allow
> one to send e-mail with odd dates.  (i mean, i guess if the person
> stands on their head and swears up and down that they mean to do it,

`mutt' is program that receives date from system date. Nothing wrong
with it alone.

You cannot blame computer program for doing what is
instructed. Programs know the time we gave to them.

A server for mailing list is much more important program than single
MUA.

Mailing list solves communication of many people.

Such computer is always online and can easily synchronize time with
Internet servers.

In my opinion central computer that manages mailing lists should
recogniz if time of users is far in future and handle it
appropriately.

Maybe re-writing time with explanation in e-mail header would be more
appropriate.

-- 
Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/

Re: [BUG] list.orgmode.org managed to parse a message in future: 2023-10-29 [9.6.1 (release_9.6.1-223-gc8d20d @ /home/yantar92/.emacs.d/straight/build/org/)]

[Greg Minshall]

Jean Louis,

> In my opinion central computer that manages mailing lists should
> recogniz if time of users is far in future and handle it
> appropriately.

> Maybe re-writing time with explanation in e-mail header would be more
> appropriate.

maybe something like that.  though, this seems more an issue for
"mailing list management" mailing lists than for org-mode itself.
(maybe send them such a message, from the future? :)

cheers, Greg