From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: New Package for NonGNU-ELPA: clojure-ts-mode Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2023 14:55:35 +0000 Message-ID: <87pm32uemw.fsf@posteo.net> References: <87il9kksqz.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87350ndquw.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83350ncbns.fsf@gnu.org> <87cyzrjbd8.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83zg2vav46.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7j99304.fsf@dfreeman.email> <97224c4f-fad4-ae01-46c1-5755d97d9a92@gutov.dev> <87fs3ztq38.fsf@localhost> <87cyz3qwba.fsf@posteo.net> <8734zztmiz.fsf@localhost> <87sf7zqs3l.fsf@yahoo.com> <87il8vs6e7.fsf@localhost> <87jztbqrc9.fsf@yahoo.com> <877cpbs5a0.fsf@localhost> <87fs3zqqgj.fsf@yahoo.com> <874jkfs4o0.fsf@localhost> <87y1hroz47.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="34532"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Ihor Radchenko , Po Lu , Dmitry Gutov , Stefan Kangas , Danny Freeman , Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org, manuel.uberti@inventati.org To: Jens Schmidt Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 01 16:56:56 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qc5Zv-0008jR-2Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 01 Sep 2023 16:56:55 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qc5Ym-0000O5-VP; Fri, 01 Sep 2023 10:55:44 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qc5Yl-0000Mt-P6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Sep 2023 10:55:43 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qc5Yj-0001lQ-5b for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Sep 2023 10:55:43 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D6244240028 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2023 16:55:38 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1693580138; bh=MMQr9WIQeJiuq5HVkWFFNcXIiD9zDaSPy8mBzEDYm6E=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version: Content-Transfer-Encoding:From; b=WFmPgqQfzoiz5rklnbuuxuP9YsFB52giTc19RdTOiBneq7Bbk+L1nj4YHnbh0WlT1 88tCn1mKUqVYmuha8d0umI9uMGjdpPSN0bJMHsBitsLcTI5S8SIFZSFJjcVDhkdVSV zvFKuE3c28ajJ//n1IPRN9P/eLHFQh2TpmEfcBP6vjsFnykw9JO5GtMyWLG08TEgAr v7G+e/S5ug5TnB/TIVaniDKJqIjmX5S+HBoJykNs+rqUGCs/bhrkAB/XpjKD8BnoJP JnTizi+BB33b03Aal9yYJb3t+PRAZreA8bOvmOov2dHBle728E+hRztXaDSHxplCmn Pv3+evphgVToA== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4Rch0m0tStz6tvh; Fri, 1 Sep 2023 16:55:36 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: (Jens Schmidt's message of "Fri, 1 Sep 2023 00:05:25 +0200") Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; keydata= mDMEZBBQQhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAHJuofBrfqFh12uQu0Yi7mrl525F28eTmwUDflFNmdui0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiWBBMWCAA+FiEEDg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwMFCQHhM4AFCwkI BwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwulikAEA77hloUiSrXgFkUVJhlKBpLCHUjA0 mWZ9j9w5d08+jVwBAK6c4iGP7j+/PhbkxaEKa4V3MzIl7zJkcNNjHCXmvFcEuDgEZBBQQhIKKwYB BAGXVQEFAQEHQI5NLiLRjZy3OfSt1dhCmFyn+fN/QKELUYQetiaoe+MMAwEIB4h+BBgWCAAmFiEE Dg7HY17ghYlni8XN8xYDWXahwukFAmQQUEICGwwFCQHhM4AACgkQ8xYDWXahwukm+wEA8cml4JpK NeAu65rg+auKrPOP6TP/4YWRCTIvuYDm0joBALw98AMz7/qMHvSCeU/hw9PL6u6R2EScxtpKnWof z4oM Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309809 Archived-At: Jens Schmidt writes: >> Some people are afraid of communicating with the mailing list or >> reporting bugs because of an image issue. I have on more than one >> occasion heard of people who intentionally avoid communicating with >> emacs-devel due to bad experience. Others fear sending a message out >> into the blue and not knowing who will read and respond to what they >> said, will they be shouted down or just ignored. > > Exactly. TBH I still have to assemble courage to post here. All these > top dogs with their super-dry yet elaborate communication style are > surely, um, intimidating. Po Lu's mails, to pick one example, are a > constant source of new English vocabulary for me (recent addition: > "brazen"). But at least RMS lets slip in some typos in his mails... I think everyone makes mistakes sometimes when posting here. I can't count the number of times when I added the wrong patch, forgot to CC everyone, responded to the wrong message, misunderstood someones point entirely, typos .... and nobody really cares. If I see someone make a mistake, I just gloss over it (unless it affects me or I can help in some way). The fear you describe is relatable, my first message to the Emacs developers was written just over 4=C2=BD years ago, and I have only been contributing more regularly for about 3 years. That being said, I cannot explain the fact that I don't worry about every message, other than if you send normal and kind messages, you get normal and kind responses. >> What I think the Org project does well is the "This month in Org" line >> of posts, that help highlight contributions from newcomers and >> familiarise those familiar with a mailing list with the procedures going >> on here. > > Mixing the "help" mailing list with the "devel" mailing list is another > things that makes Org more attractive to users, I guess. It feels more > democratic. But then, Org feels more bazaar-like, as a whole, and Emacs > more cathedral-like. Democratic is a weird word to use here, IMO. Either way, I think it makes sense to split between development-talk and regular help. There is a lot of weird noise on help-gnu-emacs@ that really don't have to make reading emacs-devel@ any more difficult.