From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib? 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID c06d6c0f2e323aaf47cf5943e3ef3733; Fri, 10 Nov 2023 10:42:47 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: ("Gerd =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann?= =?utf-8?Q?=22's?= message of "Fri, 10 Nov 2023 09:20:05 +0100") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21896 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.185.146; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic305-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:312472 Archived-At: Gerd M=C3=B6llmann writes: > Could you perhaps formulate a plan for what should be done? I personally > find something concrete much easier to handle than a back-and-forth of > arguments. First off, I think people should make it clear that new code saturated with calls to cl-lib will not be accepted. Once people are coaxed out of this habit, it will be possible to start removing calls to cl-lib from existing code. This will also afford us opportunities to move frequently used cl-lib constructs that aren't all that adventitious to subr.el. If all goes well, it will be feasible to use Emacs without loading cl-lib at all.