From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib? 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID bde6c393ef332220601e0492de91d074; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 13:04:00 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: (=?utf-8?Q?=22Jo=C3=A3o_T=C3=A1vora=22's?= message of "Sat, 11 Nov 2023 12:10:31 +0000") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21896 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.184.200; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic301-31.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:312551 Archived-At: Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora writes: > Where in heck did I "impugn" Emacs's Lisp primitives?? I use them > all the time!! I just think it's a really really bad idea to > use them exclusively, almost religiously, to inline existing utils > in write-only code. When given the opportunity to demonstrate the > superiority of this approach to substitute cl-set-difference, you > failed. It's just my opinion, of course, but that hard patent fact > that is on display in this thread, along with the hard patent fact > that I simply failed to notice your mistake -- because reading that > code takes much more effort -- is a much better demonstration > of the relative "abstrusity" of the practice you so energetically > recommend. That failure belies the alleged advantages of cl-lib, and vindicates all Alan and Richard have said thus far: for all their augustness, cl-lib's designers did not select an unambiguous English word for a comparatively elementary set operation. Instead devolving responsibility for second guessing their intent to such as I and they. > Like Dmitry, I don't think it's because you don't have > coding ability or intelligence -- which you most clearly do -- > just that your practice lends itself to these problems _more often > than_ other more eclectic and pondered practices such as using > more programming techniques. Actually, a problem would have arisen had I used cl-set-difference while under the impression that it calculated the disjunctive union of LIST1 with LIST2, as the signification of the word "difference" suggests. Writing such code with only primitives sidesteps such pitfalls altogether, since what is thought is directly set down.