From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: free services (was: Re: Translation of manuals (was: SES manual French translation)) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 05:56:01 +0100 Message-ID: <87ply9wzvi.fsf_-_@dataswamp.org> References: <835y0azhvo.fsf@gnu.org> <83wmsqy14p.fsf@gnu.org> <3E7CF23D-CE62-4581-80D6-E6266CEE4DF5@traductaire-libre.org> <83edexy5cy.fsf@gnu.org> <1E3685C0-7B33-45BB-BF3C-AD1215BAB33B@traductaire-libre.org> <87o7dv9pax.fsf@dataswamp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="14894"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:EqE/0RIhe+sDXSlLPYmlrV7kK94= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Jan 10 13:29:16 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rNXhr-0003ce-ML for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 13:29:15 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rNXgx-0004qu-HD; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 07:28:19 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rNQdV-0004vj-Fq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2024 23:56:17 -0500 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rNQdT-0006Rz-KI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Jan 2024 23:56:17 -0500 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rNQdP-0001k6-FU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 05:56:11 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 07:28:17 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:314809 Archived-At: Richard Stallman wrote: > That name issue is superficial, not hard to fix. But I don't > see how it makes sense to describe a service as a kind > of software. The service itself is not software, it is the result of the work of software that runs on a server. The user interacts with it with an interface and maybe there is an interface for the result as well, depending on what service we are talking about. If all that software, including the interface(s), are free, I don't see why not the whole thing is free as well. > The deeper problem here is that defining what it means for > services that to users ethically is the same problem as > defining what it means for services to treat > users unethically. Indeed, it doesn't say anything about that. But if anyone is displeased how users are treated that is solvable, because the service is free, the whole thing can be forked and setup on another server. Part of or all software can be forked and modified and users can still use what is basically the same service, only now whatever they were displeased with can be fixed. (At least initially at least it is basically the same. But of course it can grow from there to what is ultimately more like two different things.) Isn't it the same situation for any piece of free software? Say it does something bad, it erases your disk. Instead of having a long list what free software isn't allowed to do - 1. erase disk, 2. send spam e-mails, 3. ugh ... - we are content the software is free. So those mistakes can be fixed, however way they got there and for whatever reason. So instead of having a long list of what a free service cannot do - 1. treat the users unethically, 2. send spam e-mails, 3. ugh ... - we say if it runs entirely on free software, it is a free service. Because everything unethically or otherwise poorly-performing can be removed from it, just like a bug from ordinary software. -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal