Re: Info tutorial is out of date

[Jay Belanger <belanger@truman.edu>]

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:

>     > They're already used to it - there are no more virgin users.
>
>     They're not used to using the mouse with Emacs.
>
> What we're talking about here is menu access and clicking links and buttons.
> There is nothing Emacs-specific with how user users do those things in
> Emacs - nothing new. I think you're grasping at straws, here.

No.  They are being implicitly told that using the mouse is the way to
use Emacs.  No straws involved.

>     > I'm not suggesting we teach them *any* way to perform simple
>     > navigation (equivalent of `n' and `p'). On the contrary, my
>     > point was that we *need not* teach that. There is an obvious,
>     > simple way to navigate: click a link or navigation button.
>
>     Falling back on that is effectively teaching them that's the way to do
>     it, or at least allowing them to teach themselves thats how to do it.
>
> Not at all. At most, it could be said to *not* teach them to change their
> nasty ways. But it does not teach them *anything* new about the
> mouse/keyboard.

It tells them that that is how to use Emacs.  After all, what else
do they know?

> The question is, "Where is the right place to crusade for the keyboard?"

Hardly a crusade.

> That lesson is a distraction from teaching Info.

The question is whether teaching Info properly involves teaching the
keyboard or not.  On this, people can disagree, but using loaded
language is not helpful.