From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: AW: delete-selection-mode Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 05:11:25 +0900 Message-ID: <87ocilfl02.fsf@catnip.gol.com> References: <87ocitw2dl.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <201003130001.o2D01FFQ003489@godzilla.ics.uci.edu> <87vdd1yqe4.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87eijjzrkd.fsf_-_@mail.jurta.org> <874okf8dep.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <7697A57B1AD9104F993CDF6A5B69430C0A70E50872@CORPMAIL08.corp.capgemini.com> <4BA0CDF9.40707@online.de> <76682E4761EA432EB929E5E199B0F92A@us.oracle.com> <87wrxb57e1.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87sk7z571u.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <81674B067AF84670A2EDDB0178E0C0CC@us.oracle.com> <877hpa68ys.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <874oke4kor.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87pr32pd9j.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <0726390D71674C4EB1561AF2D9527D66@us.oracle.com> Reply-To: Miles Bader NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1268943112 11391 80.91.229.12 (18 Mar 2010 20:11:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 20:11:52 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'Chong Yidong' , 'David Kastrup' , 'Stefan Monnier' , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Drew Adams" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Mar 18 21:11:47 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NsM4G-0005OR-Hz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 21:11:44 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57638 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NsM4F-0002M6-Rq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:11:43 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NsM49-0002KR-Uu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:11:38 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=54936 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NsM48-0002HT-75 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:11:37 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NsM47-0001Ml-7g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:11:36 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp12.dentaku.gol.com ([203.216.5.74]:57188) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NsM44-0001Ln-1E; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:11:32 -0400 Original-Received: from 218.231.253.174.eo.eaccess.ne.jp ([218.231.253.174] helo=catnip.gol.com) by smtp12.dentaku.gol.com with esmtpa (Dentaku) id 1NsM40-0006F3-A7; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 05:11:28 +0900 Original-Received: by catnip.gol.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id C18F42BD52; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 05:11:25 +0900 (JST) System-Type: x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu In-Reply-To: <0726390D71674C4EB1561AF2D9527D66@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:07:55 -0700") Original-Lines: 35 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV GOL (outbound) X-Abuse-Complaints: abuse@gol.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:122207 Archived-At: "Drew Adams" writes: >> The "DEL deletes" functionality seems the main thing; a mode >> which only did that would probably be fine, and solve 95% of >> the muscle-memory-from-other-apps issues. > > Why? How will that help users who expect the usual type-to-replace behavior? It won't, but based on what I've seen, I think that people who actually "type to delete", instead of hitting DEL first and _then_ typing the new text, are a minority. [Note that this observation doesn't apply to specialized input fields like browser address boxes -- they're set up so that "type to delete" is the usual action -- but they're a very specialized and unusual context, and should not be treated like standard text buffers.] [Just to be clear, "DEL" means the `delete-backward-char' key.] > What's so special about DEL? IIUC, your proposal essentially binds DEL to > `delete-region' when the region is active. Yes, and that's _good_. It's simple, straight-forward, and has the good points without the bad points. The goal is _not_ to turn Emacs into windows, it's to help people with windows-influenced muscle-memory a bit, when doing so is not harmful. Clearly there are many controversial issues in this area, so we should pick off the low-hanging fruit first. -Miles -- Circus, n. A place where horses, ponies and elephants are permitted to see men, women and children acting the fool.