From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Uwe Brauer Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: some progress Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 18:25:42 +0200 Message-ID: <87obay5czd.fsf@mat.ucm.es> References: <87vc57hfyc.fsf@gilgamesch.quim.ucm.es> <87ip17h9uy.fsf@gilgamesch.quim.ucm.es> <83sj0bmv26.fsf@gnu.org> <8738sbh87c.fsf@gilgamesch.quim.ucm.es> <83obazmszw.fsf@gnu.org> <87d2rffm9m.fsf@gilgamesch.quim.ucm.es> <83hagrmj1h.fsf@gnu.org> <87y5a3dz7j.fsf@gilgamesch.quim.ucm.es> <83wqpmlbdr.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Uwe Brauer NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==-=-="; micalg=sha1; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1371918365 2676 80.91.229.3 (22 Jun 2013 16:26:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 16:26:05 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 22 18:26:07 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UqQdZ-0002Io-Rj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 18:26:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48305 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UqQdZ-000548-Az for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 12:26:05 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38198) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UqQdP-00053e-Lo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 12:26:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UqQdL-00042t-He for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 12:25:55 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wi0-x231.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c05::231]:59549) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UqQdL-00042c-4H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 12:25:51 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wi0-f177.google.com with SMTP id ey16so1410540wid.16 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 09:25:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mat.ucm.es; s=google; h=x-mailer:from:to:cc:subject:references:reply-to:x-hashcash :x-hashcash:date:in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version :content-type; bh=nhKNPApzUSQdZqJkizpjSC4TW86lZimJ1N6RWx97C4M=; b=mq+4+K56C7LZOcsj0VCixr3KMmBGXZOm8XOxgz8VHdzkHM/GOkJtmGkzDdf9Xfm5yn yKeX6wAxnIBp1/VLYn4CVvnSw1AOFVjMV4c4gnEnaPODzUp2DwS1hJ0btYpIUJxwl0/K TtMy2RHQ/62KjakyZ4KLogB0OmkpUDd3pAmKA= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=x-mailer:from:to:cc:subject:references:reply-to:x-hashcash :x-hashcash:date:in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version :content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=nhKNPApzUSQdZqJkizpjSC4TW86lZimJ1N6RWx97C4M=; b=Q5xt2iABqUubd8fzjiL9M+zjyF0IgmrvRHsRHg72Uh0uQxlCD0IJcSWurV8C5bnRMb U0D45AyR9u7p0ss1eQ1Jb+SgQhY1XdkVCqG9CuXj0+UPRu7IztHHs+nI5zZOFtY5oSc7 wNlB4wU1GVv9vPYzVuyBYF7/fc6+PbIO5fYAbEextD0S3ioNVss1bwc5mFzCcgKF5GVK 45y+IYDslvkd/p2LSLb3tzxL2hmuJ9NRK5QCONGdSo/GNba4Phzaahz0DfXgJt70sZmf FPr4YB+fySzd0+bCwewLjJDeP31/Qa2HFYD9mFYank6VrNnFjvPYGLNb/MMGKMF2fja4 o1ZA== X-Received: by 10.180.95.201 with SMTP id dm9mr1929196wib.21.1371918349121; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 09:25:49 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from Burrurr (eduroam108246.eduroam.ucm.es. [147.96.108.246]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id xn20sm4909687wib.5.2013.06.22.09.25.47 for (version=TLSv1.1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 22 Jun 2013 09:25:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: 21.5 (beta32) "habanero" XEmacs Lucid (via feedmail 11-beta-1 I) X-Hashcash: 1:20:130622:emacs-devel@gnu.org::oLB8s1V0sNufDR5K:0000000000000000000000000000000000000000008H0i X-Hashcash: 1:20:130622:eliz@gnu.org::rkp210j5XDGubw2z:000004uOP In-Reply-To: <83wqpmlbdr.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 22 Jun 2013 12:53:36 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.130006 (Ma Gnus v0.6) XEmacs/21.5-b32 (linux) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkZM/RTObR2ZeDXirliN7BTWVAssE5Hp2DpBBURX7+zqET0YFdirTZofsf73tSjz22iCteV X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c05::231 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:160889 Archived-At: --==-=-= Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> "Eli" =3D=3D Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Uwe Brauer >> Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 21:46:08 +0200 >>=20 >> Ok, here is a patch for the phonetic keyboard. > Thanks. A few suggestions below. I am sorry to have sent the patch without extensive testing,=20 > Also, if we are to accept this, we will need a copyright assignment > from you. Of course, but how? Could I sent a pgp signed assignment? >> + ("A" ?=E0) ; Alef >> + ("B" ?=E1) ; Bet Ok before going to the errors, some remarks about the keyboard in question. For those of us, who use Hebrew only occasionally the standard Hebrew keyboard needs too much of adaptation to be practical [1]. There is a lot of polemics about what would be a good substitute and as I understand it you can either - have a phonetic approach: try to map the hebrew letters to its phonetic relatives in us-ascii like bet-->b or - try to use the forms of the letters, so shin-->w samesh-->o. Now the keyboard I am referring to is the Hebrew-phonetic keyboard provided by KDE, I don't know whether there is a gnome version and I also don't know whether MS windows or Apple provide something similar.=20 The keyboard, I admit, is not entirely consistent. As you complained o-->samesh but w--> wav.=20 Nevertheless I think it should be accepted as it is, because now there are a couple of applications with BIDI support in Linux: besides LyX, Kile and Openoffice (I am sure there are more).=20 When I used Hebrew in Lyx I could configure my own hebrew-phonetic keyboard, but I don't know how to do this for openoffice and kile, I even don't know whether it is possible or one should then re configure the KDE layout.=20 Since this KDE layout is some sort of standard (in the KDE world) I think it is worth to have it in GNU emacs. Maybe we should name it hebrew-phonetic-kde or something like this. I attach a file in which you can see the distribution of the kde-keyboard and which is an answer to most of your critics. [snip] >> + ("R" ?=F8) ; Resh >> + ("R" ?=F8) ; Resh > Why twice? My fault! I also forgot shin! >> + ("." ?.) ; Stop > Why do you need this identity mapping? >> + ("[" ?\]) ; mirroring >> + ("]" ?\[) ; mirroring >> + ("(" ?\)) ; mirroring >> + (")" ?\() ; mirroring >> + ("{" ?}) ; mirroring >> + ("}" ?{) ; mirroring >> + ("<" ?>) ; mirroring >> + (">" ?<) ; mirroring Well this I just copied from other layout found in the hebrew.el file. If it is not necessary we can delete it. > What about / and \ ? Now I am not sure that it is really needed. Uwe=20 Footnotes: [1] I wounder whether it was Eliezer Ben-Yehuda himself who invented it. :-D --=-=-= Content-Type: application/octet-stream Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=hebrew-phonetic Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 YSDXkApiINeRCmMg16YKZCDXkwplINeQCmYg16QKZyDXkgpoINeUCmkg15kKaiDXmQprINeb Cmwg15wKbSDXngpuINegCm8g16EKcCDXpApxINenCnIg16gKcyDXqQp0INeqCnUg15UKdiDX lQp3INeVCngg15cKeSDXogp6INeWCiAgCkEg15AKQiDXkQpDINemCkQg15MKRSDXkApGINej Ckcg15IKSCDXlApJINeZCkog15kKSyDXmgpMINecCk0g150KTiDXnwpPINehClAg16MKUSDX pwpSINeoClMg16kKVCDXmApVINeVClYg15UKVyDXlQpYINeXClkg16IKWiDXlgoK --=-=-=-- --==-=-= Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIITGzCC BDYwggMeoAMCAQICAQEwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwbzELMAkGA1UEBhMCU0UxFDASBgNVBAoT C0FkZFRydXN0IEFCMSYwJAYDVQQLEx1BZGRUcnVzdCBFeHRlcm5hbCBUVFAgTmV0d29yazEi 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