From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@newcastle.ac.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs Book Vs Emacs Manuals Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 14:44:41 +0100 Message-ID: <87oalmneeu.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> References: <83h9rnp0yy.fsf@gnu.org> <87r3qnl70z.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <837fsfm7gq.fsf@gnu.org> <991d9b3f-e2f4-4977-9e78-99d39b04ede5@default> <53fc8fd4-2a3e-4937-bc17-6bf6d5bfff5a@googlegroups.com> <0d865b33-6751-4958-b61b-e0f2b3298a20@googlegroups.com> <83egmllmf0.fsf@gnu.org> <20150513074735.GB7600@tuxteam.de> <28a69757-3f3c-4cb1-bf1c-62e7e82be22d@googlegroups.com> <80ada056-d5b6-4a33-b714-63b216f17a7d@googlegroups.com> <83siaygf6h.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1431697511 3080 80.91.229.3 (15 May 2015 13:45:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 13:45:11 +0000 (UTC) To: Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 15 15:45:03 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YtFvD-0007g1-IZ for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 15 May 2015 15:45:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59716 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YtFvC-0000aQ-Ke for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 15 May 2015 09:45:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37609) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YtFuy-0000X7-Pq for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 15 May 2015 09:44:49 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YtFuu-0004qe-0C for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 15 May 2015 09:44:48 -0400 Original-Received: from cheviot22.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.234.22]:46113) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YtFut-0004qJ-MF for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 15 May 2015 09:44:43 -0400 Original-Received: from smtpauth-vm.ncl.ac.uk ([10.8.233.129] helo=smtpauth.ncl.ac.uk) by cheviot22.ncl.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1YtFur-00081N-Fk for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 15 May 2015 14:44:41 +0100 Original-Received: from jangai.ncl.ac.uk ([10.66.67.223] helo=localhost) by smtpauth.ncl.ac.uk with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1YtFur-0001cy-Q2 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 15 May 2015 14:44:41 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83siaygf6h.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 15 May 2015 16:09:58 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4.0.0.0 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 128.240.234.22 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:104453 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Its 2015. >> You dont need to explain things like cursor-movement [do people read/need >> notepad or gedit tutorials?] unless its rather non-standard. > > Emacs is neither notepad nor gedit, and we describe cursor motion > because the ergonomic commands for that are "rather non-standard", or > at least could be for people whose only experience is gedit or > notepad. > >> Of course in 1975 it was different... > > It's different today as it was different in 1985. And we do mention > the arrow keys and PageUp/PageDown before we describe the > Emacs-specific bindings. So I really see no reason to complain, > except if you have an agenda. I suspect that Rusi's agenda is to make the Emacs tutorial as easy to understand as possible. I've rarely managed to get one of my students to read the tutorial. I would like to be able to change that situation. It's good to think of how. Phil