From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [PATCH] Add prettify symbols to python-mode Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 18:52:16 +0200 Message-ID: <87oagt84e7.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <1442777283-27514-1-git-send-email-mvoteiza@udel.edu> <20150921005306.GA29147@holos> <87h9mlwt6l.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <83bnctliay.fsf@gnu.org> <83oagtjemn.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1443027167 8380 80.91.229.3 (23 Sep 2015 16:52:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 16:52:47 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Xue Fuqiao , Stromeko@nexgo.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 23 18:52:42 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZenHc-0007HG-36 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 18:52:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49270 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZenHb-0007Qw-DW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 12:52:39 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60569) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZenHO-0007Qh-2F for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 12:52:27 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZenHN-0001ai-0y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 12:52:25 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([208.118.235.10]:35247) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZenHF-0001Sd-Kd; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 12:52:17 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48282 helo=lola) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ZenHE-0002a2-T5; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 12:52:17 -0400 Original-Received: by lola (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 36EEDE0F08; Wed, 23 Sep 2015 18:52:16 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <83oagtjemn.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 23 Sep 2015 19:15:44 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.10 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:190298 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 22:12:30 +0800 >> From: Xue Fuqiao >> Cc: Achim Gratz , Emacs-devel >> >> On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> >> > One of the gravest problems I see for the future of Emacs development >> > is that we slowly but steadily lose old-timers who know a lot about >> > the Emacs internals and have lots of experience hacking them, whereas >> > the (welcome) newcomers mostly prefer working on application-level >> > code in Lisp. If this tendency continues, we will soon lose the >> > ability to make deep infrastructure changes, i.e. will be unable to >> > add new features that need non-trivial changes on the C level. >> >> Yes, this is also what I see. As a "newcomer" (in comparison with most >> Emacs hackers on this list, who have been contributing to Emacs for much >> longer than me, and have a deeper understanding of the system as a >> whole), some possible causes for this problem are: >> >> * Hacking on the C level is inherently more difficult than the Lisp >> (application) level. > > I don't see why. C is not a complicated language, and a large part of > the Emacs source code never touches its relatively more problematic > parts, like memory allocation. C may not be a complicated language but it offers no significant in-language features for integrating data structures and their manipulators. As a consequence, working with Elisp data in C does not resemble either working with C or with Lisp. -- David Kastrup