From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: hw Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Some developement questions Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2018 10:11:38 +0200 Organization: my virtual residence Message-ID: <87o9d9u3ph.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <8336v6cvem.fsf@gnu.org> <8736v6icgt.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83tvnmb958.fsf@gnu.org> <877ekigiiw.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <837ekhb2me.fsf@gnu.org> <87zhxcbmtr.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83in409lub.fsf@gnu.org> <871sanb71j.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83y3cu7t9j.fsf@gnu.org> <87lg8t2ki9.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <20180827015422.lcq44zvsjffeau4j@Ergus> <83a7p76f5e.fsf@gnu.org> <87lg8p9o6y.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83pnxx1foj.fsf@gnu.org> <87k1o1a06q.fsf@russet.org.uk> <877ek1ql6u.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <19f783eb-a688-2a69-e209-ea161177c8cb@cs.ucla.edu> <87a7ov5um4.fsf@toy.adminart.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1536310030 19647 195.159.176.226 (7 Sep 2018 08:47:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2018 08:47:10 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.1 (gnu/linux) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Paul Eggert , Phillip Lord , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ergus Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 07 10:47:05 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fyCPw-0004yS-Se for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 10:47:04 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37459 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fyCS3-0004pt-8e for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 04:49:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42172) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fyCP9-0002Lb-KA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 04:46:16 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fyCP7-0005ps-LT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 04:46:15 -0400 Original-Received: from mo6-p01-ob.smtp.rzone.de ([2a01:238:20a:202:5301::2]:29436) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fyCP6-0005Xq-LB; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 04:46:13 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1536309964; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=adminart.net; h=References:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=Lus/jI7P3R/HnBxTjBb4S+zmTl6vzPTdPd9kx82uaLo=; b=B0akTA+ezkuqHXAfXXvQSVrwHw4IiMFaXRfixIKn7rYLJfwbx6uJsIA5kolPJxIe+J Y5RHE+Dk5gj92Hxo+wIqh63Lt/f56W7zwcd6dRVoukUwDa8+5ca7gfRC8ZaX7MPoRCle E/mGqoaTl3krj6t0bdi9ll8h7IPY7nLystNJ2j4zY6Ar5m4B6SKBmOEb7R/R0KiUDvFv 3cENAoqw3lEYYxgjAZCHSnbBOCg4yB0Tp6VlmOvmQz+muylVXxbeE/ugQtuaNU4MOMyl bPw3rRK0tium0ul30hCZsaSod2PRyRRFrTjEW4gvN6EN92BNvz8DenX1y8U96hrHXF0x tJEQ== X-RZG-AUTH: ":O2kGeEG7b/pS1FS4THaxjVF9w0vVgfQ9xGcjwO5WMRo5c+h5ceMqQWZ3yrBp+AVdIIwXjneEe9k=" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Original-Received: from himinbjorg.adminart.net by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.0 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id e03b99u878joB2M (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Fri, 7 Sep 2018 10:45:50 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from toy.adminart.net ([192.168.3.55]) by himinbjorg.adminart.net with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1fyCOj-0000o4-NH; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 10:45:49 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Ergus's message of "Thu, 06 Sep 2018 03:41:22 +0200") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2a01:238:20a:202:5301::2 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229383 Archived-At: Ergus writes: > On 6 September 2018 03:11:08 CEST, hw wrote: >>Paul Eggert writes: >> >>> hw wrote: >>>> My first step with 'emacs -q' would be to make the menu fonts >>larger. >>>> As much as I like monospace fonts, the typewriter font used for the >>text >>>> was *really ugly* even 30 years ago. One look at Emacs with this >>font >>>> might turn most people away before they start reading anything. >>> >>> This matches my perception too, when I show Emacs to students. Emacs >>> starts up in monospace font and that looks sooooo 1980s. >> >>not really >> >>I don't mean to say that there's something wrong with monospace fonts. >>I prefer them for most things because they're monospace. >> >>We should ask a designer for some ideas about how to make Emacs look >>better. > > We can also see what have succeded before, for example packages like > powerline or fonts like Hacks or Cantarell. I never used these fonts, and what is powerline? > They have succeded independently of operative systems, editors or > tools. The default color scheme, graphical or tui. These are the kind > of initial things I wanted to ask to the new user if there is not > config file. If he dont want any help can get the defaults, else he > could choose and the first impresion could be much much better. That's one of the things I've been thinking about when trying to figure out why 'emacs -q', creating an X frame, is so ugly. I thought it might look much better with different colours, but that's just me as I don't like black on white much on monitors. What also makes it look ugly is the toolbar and the menu. Turning those off by default might not be the best idea, though. Having the user pick colors initially is probably difficult: I need to see how it looks when I pick colors, so I try them out. Asking someone what colours they would like and then using them probably won't work. Preparing preset colour themes (skins) might work. You can show a preview image and let the user pick one. That could include font selections.