From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [External] : Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib? 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID c1b800689330d9b69ff0f060e6a79826; Sun, 12 Nov 2023 00:34:57 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 11 Nov 2023 18:32:58 +0000") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21896 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.190.147; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic315-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:312620 Archived-At: Drew Adams writes: >> > There is no reason to require a 21 KB file for a six line >> > function. None. >> >> Yes, one: If that six line function is useful and is defined >> in a readily available library of 21 KB. >> >> Sure, one can break up that library do decrease its modules' >> sizes, but this is up to the people at the library's side, not >> the person writing code and using the library, because s/he is >> using it as intended. cl-lib was never meant to be used in such a carefree manner. >> Especially if the library is readily available, like cl-lib, >> there is no hesitation. If it has to be downloaded from the >> web or by means of some package manager etc then the practical >> reasons not to do it appear, so maybe it makes sense in one >> sense, but isn't reasonable practically to do, for just >> six lines. I think that particular line is better drawn at "whether it is loaded into /usr/bin/emacs" than at "whether it must be downloaded from the Internet." By which I mean the line governing whether we should resign ourselves to its proliferation, not that governing whether its proliferation is all that advantageous. >> But again, that isn't the case with cl-lib. It is already >> there and it is very easy to use to improve your code. >> Even for a single file and a single use case, what would be >> the reason no to do it? > > I agree with you - the logic there makes sense. > That's what often happens. It's not preloaded and makes for an alluring invitation for others to produce more cryptic code with it, like virtually any caller of cl-loop, as so vividly demonstrated by some other posters in this thread.