From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: master 72b1379f079: Increase `emacs-lisp-docstring-fill-column` to 72 Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2024 19:04:00 +0800 Message-ID: <87o7cxlsgv.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <87il36mevf.fsf@yahoo.com> <4a52da5c-2252-4956-b6b2-b452e5be8c9f@alphapapa.net> <875xz5nb2h.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="23410"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, stefankangas@gmail.com To: Adam Porter Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Feb 03 12:04:57 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rWDpR-0005rY-2r for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2024 12:04:57 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rWDop-0002gK-Kd; Sat, 03 Feb 2024 06:04:23 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rWDon-0002g6-Qq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2024 06:04:17 -0500 Original-Received: from sonic311-23.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.188.204]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rWDom-0003SK-8u for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2024 06:04:17 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1706958253; bh=hM3iPiz12L7Hgq+PhBau3MQSkXaojYmAzRYaAb8EuIg=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=FRn9OMm+RFI//XGSYVjsjGysV+W22wn5t2mR4jHb5+wOeW2zBLQKVMLNpNJT/GWB3BR1J7o1CbDy74Uy0K4wszkhI4F/yNAYrJSBaZWitJYoQ66TLGzctGWEgPVUaFqVjMZSkJcliT7Cq1HdgRDCfaD18DANMNWaZBsNkanHkQ2BhY29mwyA/+JAXhRWEb6gtUnFKk7LsnP6efCdJKfZWfp4lM7OQkfGLTB7zqwcNFBag1fCgThKvOKF8/2DKApy66dtbRViGH59MPesZmghiXQ6JpMTuSmkf6wB8HviUqedrjBPb94kVELBi8uAuz13YmeLH7gxllo1UxFJbZc34A== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1706958253; bh=K+c1KyOkztQJmoFR0jAfamUnwjtzNylbwr9HFuezhrC=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=E/JNyv08du46MnccmXeHm+Jz96PgSibLxx0dd8Oz6YZd8BhnRiMhqCgDrmqsut5zhoHvPwqhZsxkpMmxe3eMY9Kc28nnAtHKYdqvhfSp4CSnRl3g598jul9fSHimCdBMpUo0/CjEL7KJq6WcJ+Ev8otv8CcMspGpe9X+E7lSIKRswm8pRaT4759RSIcBk8o/IcJB+62w+9DW6S3xD75Wm/bGfMzpAHWZNGy2d0B6fqbtDIpbc4piorEbBVIv3g/qPPHJCQf5nFEu8TeOjMgzQvWlIqDpPI4eLl0oAeh7LTRVq45G/KYKfFTErlu3JNf6qN1nekYhtHUwCSnQ2pfLqw== X-YMail-OSG: mSDNJmAVM1kwpjfPAZqydCdDfDJtN6FADiSft9C_7_tsQzIY7CGtcpG.USk3gUG Bn2QQJnCwa3s4pXxu6DH_Sf.7XC9GGrL_7OQvxCVuhz2K7rUSvd9UeJ2um2J9VsyFhOsYbLw9oi3 2aabmXhG0255U1XvYiPSOdpnKod8L8DRCddlxbRyK3c5wypO0Hsdwtvlv8f80mAN4.ZZ1qIp0FeD G_vajYTebYv24xWnPYLPSRTA97CzW138sLuaOGjO2tpizvsb3fDMkc0wN3sEv9CEtgIcIS71d74N g4D8.ORyLe1W4INIcjZqittDsL3X5Og3GQoeVCnKlWkd8v8ZH5y471ZCGtdDOXvZngIbquoFbLF_ 4HFcNIWaFpXXm9D8bAjd.Ckyw6ckLtUH7UK5R9f52OBT7WOtRcaG_gYlJfTFkdeBxptwZuNfrh4J KleBuum5lS3uIVVjGjjV.tgZ2l32cQzuMpAr87KebZGPgfDx3TtBh8Y2ZgoQ7rt2fYYZJha6bkw7 TaF7ZuZSoLi2cvlo8RE7z5z2r.VFUkDuxMk_HeRawSR9rbElpvV53GBfcOV9LUsoFUXPMyn0fzsk SZwXCEirsZ9uLZXu9RClotD6DeUcwMGRZyaqzV5vnct2JNT3xwwuhi_GaqlGcG2Evz225Zvwl.J5 Dsi5Os3_8pckKZtxiSoK1EHbntuHZLnvS.t5qJtJpvFNBjsBUokIisEtFWPWbBX1xyUxTq0oXe94 r0SIKVB6oCbNpdJtbD_Qh7nZgG2HUez4wjkrXWK9plr_uIMOEpgHRHzgO7nj9jgaXY9uqYUjowy1 FaNivqzSwucu631iF2JNT_kcMLmesKrpA3GMBC9Fyv X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: e7cbc320-b8d4-464b-97b0-b6e95c464357 Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic311.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sat, 3 Feb 2024 11:04:13 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--production-sg3-6dc75bc8fb-dgkh5 (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 849784e1fadc5042addd03c89cf95544; Sat, 03 Feb 2024 11:04:06 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: (Adam Porter's message of "Sat, 3 Feb 2024 04:28:45 -0600") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22046 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.188.204; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic311-23.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:315806 Archived-At: Adam Porter writes: > That's probably true, but it would be hard to quantify that. As well, > as I said, it's apples-and-oranges between a workflow involving key > sequences and a display format. > > As I said, the only potential problem I can imagine is a user who's > heavily customized the window configuration or display-buffer-alist so > that docstring-showing windows are precisely 64 characters > wide. Inconveniencing them would be regrettable to some extent, but > enough to not change the value? Where the twenty year old default value of a variable is concerned, the decision is not whether to retain the old value but whether to change it. > I'm not sure what you mean. I don't think my stance is absolute; > rather, it's more that we should use good judgment in each case rather > than a set of rules. I meant that you implied the existence of a binary choice between a vote among all users and relying on the completely arbitrary judgment of one person. > Ok, but where should the line be drawn between allowing maintainers to > make such minor changes according to their judgment, and requiring > some arbitrary amount of discussion beforehand? What if the > maintainers' judgment is that sufficient discussion has happened? I don't think it's wise to enter into a dispute on the extent to which relativism applies to Emacs, since most of my premises are accepted by everyone involved, specifically in relation to this change. Namely that there should be a rationale and opportunity for comment, references to both of which figured in the commit description. My problem is that any reasonable person will agree that the discussion linked was not in the least productive and is too distant in time to be a suitable factor for decision-making. > Any decision is ultimately arbitrary, no? Even the decision to not > change it. It's not a decision to do nothing. > Weren't those formats designed decades ago? Don't our screens have > orders of magnitude more pixels now? Should we be limited by those > old limitations forever? That's not our choice, but Texinfo's. > I don't understand why you repeat that claim, because it's been > mentioned several times that increasing the limit provides a tangible > benefit. You seem to think that that benefit is negligible, but that > doesn't mean that it is non-existent, nor that the benefit seems > negligible to others. Likewise. > I understand your procedural objection. Besides that, is there a > technical problem you object to? As I said, I object to both, but to the former much more than to the latter. cwThanks.