From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juri Linkov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs-diffs Digest, Vol 50, Issue 7 Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 01:55:07 +0200 Organization: JURTA Message-ID: <87mz4v7ku0.fsf@jurta.org> References: <459BB893.9010106@gnu.org> <8764bns96l.fsf@cs.cmu.edu> <459CE689.3020006@swipnet.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1168130165 24873 80.91.229.12 (7 Jan 2007 00:36:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 00:36:05 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, jasonr@gnu.org, md5i@cs.cmu.edu, storm@cua.dk, eliz@gnu.org, jan.h.d@swipnet.se Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 07 01:36:03 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1H3M12-0000gb-3A for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 01:36:00 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3M11-0005QD-5L for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 19:35:59 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1H3M0R-0005H9-F6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 19:35:23 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1H3M0Q-0005Ge-FC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 19:35:22 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H3M0Q-0005GY-Au for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 19:35:22 -0500 Original-Received: from [62.64.120.200] (helo=relay01.kiev.sovam.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA:32) (Exim 4.52) id 1H3M0J-00078j-FC; Sat, 06 Jan 2007 19:35:15 -0500 Original-Received: from [83.170.232.243] (helo=smtp.svitonline.com) by relay01.kiev.sovam.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1H3M08-000OMj-Dq; Sun, 07 Jan 2007 02:35:12 +0200 Original-To: rms@gnu.org In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Fri, 05 Jan 2007 21:55:04 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110004 (No Gnus v0.4) Emacs/22.0.90 (gnu/linux) X-Scanner-Signature: 69470ef176344869aa12c1af2e75e870 X-DrWeb-checked: yes X-SpamTest-Envelope-From: juri@jurta.org X-SpamTest-Group-ID: 00000000 X-SpamTest-Info: Profiles 661 [Dec 30 2006] X-SpamTest-Info: helo_type=3 X-SpamTest-Info: {received from trusted relay: not dialup} X-SpamTest-Method: none X-SpamTest-Method: Local Lists X-SpamTest-Rate: 0 X-SpamTest-Status: Not detected X-SpamTest-Status-Extended: not_detected X-SpamTest-Version: SMTP-Filter Version 3.0.0 [0255], KAS30/Release X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:64894 Archived-At: > Why does it matter whether it was IBM, Apple or M$ who invented the > C-z C-x C-c C-v shortcuts (and thus broke compatibility with Emacs)? > > someone else said it was unfair to attribute these to Microsoft, since > others actually designed the interface. I certainly remember reading IBM CUA Guidelines a decade ago there were no such keys as C-x C-c C-v defined. So it is unfair to blame CUA designers for defining these stupid keys. On the contrary, they did a good job by defining neutral keys: S-DEL for cut, C-INS for Copy, and S-INS for Paste. I can't track down who first introduced C-x C-c C-v. Quite likely it was Microsoft trying to mimic Apple's special keys Command-x Command-c Command-v at the time when the Windows key was not yet duplicated from Apple's Command key. > No matter what we think or feel, or whether history is on our side, > most "modern" applications use these bindings -- including GNOME, KDE > and Firefox, so today it is Emacs which is "incompatible" with "common > practice". > > That is why it is important to note that Emacs and its command set > came first. This is especially important for Emacs newbies whose first question about Emacs nowadays is how to change C-x C-c C-v keys to cut, copy and paste. -- Juri Linkov http://www.jurta.org/emacs/